The Crown, The Treaty,

and The Hauraki Tribes

1880 1980:

Supporting Papers

THE HAURAKI TREATY CLAIMS

VOLUME 7

Hauraki Maori Trust Board

The Crown, the Treaty

and the Hauraki Tribes, 1880–1980

ROBYN ANDERSON
&
DAVID ALEXANDER

Supporting Papers

HAURAKI MAORI TRUST BOARD

1997

First published in 1997 by
Hauraki Maori Trust Board
PO Box 33, Paeroa
Aotearoa New Zealand

ISBN 1–877198–08–0
© Hauraki Maori Trust Board

This report was commissioned by the Hauraki Maori Trust Board
as part of its Waitangi Tribunal Claim research programme.
Any views expressed and conclusions drawn are those of the author.

All rights reserved.
No part of this publication may be reproduced,
stored in a retrieval system, or transmitted in any form or by any means,
electronic, mechanical, including photocopying, recording or otherwise,
without the prior permission of the publisher.

Typeset by Wordset Enterprises Limited, Wellington
Printed by GP Print, Wellington, New Zealand

CONTENTS

Preface

Index to Supporting Papers: The Crown, the Treaty and the Hauraki Tribes, 1880 –1980 by Robyn Anderson

Index to Supporting Papers: Selected Public Works Takings in the Twentieth Century by David Alexander

v

VII

VIII

PREFACE

This is the companion volume to the report The Crown, the Treaty and the Hauraki Tribes, 1880 –1980 by Robyn Anderson. It contains all the essential reference material that Dr Anderson considers necessary to support her report. The 36 documents that are reproduced comprise 447 pages.

In addition, the supporting papers referred to by David Alexander in his report Selected Public Works Takings in the Twentieth Century are located in the second half of this volume. There are 68 documents comprising another 322 pages.

Selected Public Works Takings in the Twentieth Century is a small, self-contained report included as an appendix in Anderson's report.

The Crown, the Treaty and the Hauraki Tribes 1880 –1980 is Volume 6 of The Hauraki Treaty Claims.

The index to the supporting papers is set out in the next few pages and in the second half of this volume.

v

Selected Public Works Takings in the Twentieth Century

Supporting papers

File Ref.   Title   Doc. No.
Ministry of Works & Development Head Office Files

23/288   Thames Rifle Range Reserve   1–3

31/736   Kaiaua School Site   4–26

34/1507/0 Pukehue Nor Block Plan   27–31

48/258   Native Lands Hauraki Plains   32–41

48/556   Acquisition of Ngarua 5A for Hauraki

Plains PWA   42–52

48/556   PWA Compensation Request to Native

Land Court   53–54

65/26   Waihou & Ohinemuri Rivers

Improvement Values   55

65/52   Waihou & Ohinemuri Rivers Improvement

Canal   56–60
72/25/2C/ State Highway 25 Rest Area Tairua River 61–64

0/45

Ministry of Works and Development Hamilton District Files

50/12/0   Kopu Hikuai Road   65–131

50/12/0/16 Kopu Hikuai Road   132–149

Ministry of Works and Development Paeroa District Files

11/1/1   Waihou & Ohinemuri Rivers

Improvements   150–152

11/1/10   Waihou & Ohinemuri Rivers Tapu

Land   153–156

Maori Affairs Department Head Office Files

1913/3030 Maori Land At Horahia Opu   157–160

1928/130   Tareranui Petition on Flooding

of Ohinemuri River   161–168

MLP 1914/75 Acquisition of Ngarua 5A   169–171

Lands and Survey Department Head Office Files

6/11/117   Thames Rifle Range   172–188
15/13/180 Drainage and Settlement of Hauraki

Plains   189–199

15/17   Waihou and Ohinemuri Rivers

Improvement   200–207

Maori Land Court Minute Books.

HMB 55/73 Mangakirikiri Block 3B   208

HMB 56/33o Mangakirikiri Block 3B   209

HMB 57/102 Mangakirikiri Block 3B   210

HMB 80/120 Wharekawa East 4A   211

Maori Land Court Block Order Files Hamilton

H794   Mangakirikiri Block 3B   212–213

H794   Thames Rifle Range   214–215

Hamilton Survey Plans Survey Office Plans

13260   Thames Rifle Range   216

35692   Thames Rifle range   227

File Ref.   Title   Doc. No.

42366   SH 25   218

42561   SH 25   219

45457   SH 25   220

45458   SH 25   221

45459   SH 25   222

45460   SH 25   223

46850   SH 25   224

46852   SH 25   225

46852   SH 25   226

46853   SH 25   227

46854   SH 25   228

Auckland Survey Plans

Maori Land Plan 7563   Pingao Wharekawa 5B   229

Survey Office Plan 27611 Wharekawa 5B   230

Survey Office Plan 41339 Wharekawa 5B   231

New Zealand Parliamentary Debates

Volume 145 pages 918–921 Hauraki Plains Bill   232–235

pages 952–955 Hauraki Plains Bill   232–235

Appendices to the Journals of the House of Representatives

1907 1–4A pages ii 16 –18 Petition of Tareranui   236–239

1908 C-1   78–80 Hauraki Plains Drainage 240–243
1910 C-14 i–xxx 68–73 Waihou & Ohinemuri 275–276

Rivers Commission   244–281

1911 C-8   6 Acquisition of Land   282–283

1912 C-8   6 Land to be Opened on H. Plains 284

1920 D-6A   1–8 Waihou River   285–292

1927 1–3   9 Report on Petition of Tareranui 293

New Zealand Gazette

File Ref.   Pages   Doc. No.

1895   601   294

1905   920   295

1912   1026–1027   296–297

1913   3725   298

1916   1137, 2583   299–300

1918   3709,3876   301–302

1921   1179, 2694–2695   303–305

1923   1325   306

1934   34,1214   307–308

1949   49   309

1959   730,1290   310–311

1963   1975   312

1967   269 – 270   313–314

1968   120   315

1971   1443–1444, 2228–2229   316–319

1972   2834   320

1973   1453   321

1974   58   322

VIII

INDEX

The Crown, the Treaty, and the Hauraki Tribes, 1880–1980

Supporting papers

Doc 1, pp. 1–4: W H Taipari to George Wilkinson,

6 December 1883. NO 84/156. G T Wilkinson memorandum for Under Secretary, Native Department,

February 1884. NO 84484. Both in MA 23/13a Native Committees.

Doc 2, pp. 5–6: Raika Whakarongatai to George Wilkinson,

7 November 1883. NO 84/157, in MA 23/13a Native Committees.

Doc 3, pp. 7–18: AJHR 1885 G–1, pp.31–41: Notes of Native Meetings.

Doc 4, pp. 19–92: Extracts fom MA 13/64b Piako special block file.

Doc 5, pp. 93–96: AJHR 1883 G–1, pp. 1, 6–8: Reports from officers in Native Districts.

Doc 6, pp. 97–104: AJHR 1891 session II G–1: Report of the Commission into the Native Land Laws. Dissenting note by Carroll; and evidence of Hamiora Mangakahia.

Doc 7, pp. 105: AJHR 1907 G-1B, p.5: Extract from Interim Report on Native Lands in Rohe Potae District.

Doc 8, pp. 106–108: AJHR 1908 G-1S, pp. 1–3: Interim Report of Native Land Commission on Native Lands and Native Land Tenure in the Coromandel District.

Doc 9, pp. 109–124: MA 78/19 G-1-09 and G-1A-09: Royal Commission on Native Lands and Native Land Tenure.

Doc 10, pp. 125–129: Return of Lands on which restrictions on owners were placed. Al 1888/177.

Doc 11, pp. 130–132: AJHR 1907 1–4A, pp. 16–18: Gold and Mines Committee. Report on petitions relating to silting of Ohinemuri and Waihou Rivers, to go with Minutes of Evidence.

Doc 12, pp. 133–138: AJHR 1910 C-14, pp. 68–73: Report of Commission of Inquiry Appointed to Inquire into Silting of Waihou and Ohinemuri Rivers.

Doc 13, pp. 139–140: List supplied by Valuer General to Under Secretary Public Works Department, 8 November 1910. MD 1 1910/1710.

Doc14, pp. 141–154: MA 1 1920/301 Ongarahu.

Doc15, pp. 155–159: Extracts from Thames Exception. MA 1 20/1/58.

Doc 16, pp. 192–234: Extracts from Native Land Rates Committee. MA 1 20/1/14.

Doc 17, pp. 235–265: Sale of Kauaeranga—vesting re Trustee. MA 1 20/1/23.

Doc 18, pp. 266–271: KT 577/308 Kauaeranga S28B, KT 590/309

Kauaeranga S28A, KT 674/233 Kauaeranga.

Doc 19, pp. 272–290: Report on the question of Miners' Rights. NO 89/1255 (in Justice Department Inward Letters, J 1 96/1548).

Doc 2o, pp. 291–295: George Wilkinson, Government Native Agent to Under Secretary, Mines Department, 30 March 1895; and, A J Cadman memorandum to Native Minister, 9 May 1895. MD 1 95/549 (in Justice Department Inward Letters, J 1 96/1548).

Doc 21, pp. 296–298: Victor Grace Day on behalf Tareranui to Under Secretary Mines Department, 17 February 1897. Mines Department Registered File, MD 1 97/287.

Doc 22, pp. 299–301: Victor Grace Day on behalf of Tareranui to Minister of Mines, 14 July 1897. Mines Department Registered File, MD 1 97/1456.

Doc 23, p.302 : Return of Gold Fields Revenue from August 1867 to June 1882. Mines Department Registered File, MD 1 82/714.

Doc 24, pp. 303–304: H. Kenrick, warden memo. for Under Secretary Mines Department, 4 November 1880. Mines Department Registered File, MD 1 80/1037.

Doc 25, pp. 305–308: Petition of Raika Whakarongotai and others. Mines Department Registered File, MD 1 88/496.

Doc 26, pp. 309–311: Extracts from Thames Advertiser. In Mines Department Registered File, MD 1 89/85.

Doc 27, pp. 312–332: New Zealand Parliamentary Debates, 1892, vol. 78, pp. 384–5, 428–33, 472–5, 526–9, 730–2, 804–6.

Doc 28, pp, 333–338: Petiton of W. H. Taipari and 20 others & Gold and Mines Committee Report, 31 August 1894. Mines Department Registered File, MD 1 94/2887.

Doc 29, pp. 339–369: New Zealand Parliamentary Debates, 1896, vol. 96, pp.278–318

Doc 30, pp.370–390: AJHR 1940 G-6A, pp. 1–21: Reports and Recommendations on petitions re the Native Purposes Act, 1935.

Doc 31, pp. 391–407: Extracts from Ohinemuri Goldmining Petition. MA 1 19/1/193.

Doc 32, pp. 408 –410: Ivor Prichard to Minister of Maori Affairs, 22 April 1968 & Deputy Secretary, Department of Maori and Island Affairs and Maori Trust Office to The Minister of Maori Affairs, 1 July 1968. Miscellaneous, Mining Title Registration. AAMK 869/202A.

Doc 33, pp. 411–420: Ivor Prichard to Minister of Maori Affairs, 22 April 1968.

Doc 34, pp. 421-424: Matiu Rata draft Cabinet Submission, 5 November 1975.

Doc 35, pp.425–442: Ceded Maori Land Claim Memorandum for the Sub–Committee of the Board of Maori Affairs, 7 November 1984.

Doc 36, pp. 443–447: Park memo to Foughy, Chief Registrar of Maori Land Court 19 March 1986.

VII

30

The Hon. Mr. BALLANCE met the MAORIS of the HAURAKI DISTRICT at Parawai, on the 11th
February, 1885.

The Maoris welcomed the Minister by singing a waiata, and with the usual speeches.

Mr. Ballance, in responding to the welcome, said : I thank you for the welcome which you have given me to-day. I reciprocate the sentiment of the last speaker that the two races are one, and that they are brought to each other more and more every day in those things which make a united people. The question of language is nothing, and will be cured in time; as your young people are educated in the public schools of the colony they will grow up to speak the same language as the majority of the people of this colony. I was particularly pleased with the way in which I was received—in the singing of a hymn. I venture to think that no Minister of the Crown has ever been paid such a compliment before, for I am informed that the name of every member of the present Government was included in that hymn. It was a compliment intended on the part of the poet, and was well sustained by our friends the choir who sung the hymn on this occasion. I can assure you that that is a compliment that I am never likely to forget. One speaker has referred to the question of. roads and to grievances. I will not go into matters of business to-day—those questions will be discussed to-morrow, when we have plenty of time; but I should just like to say this on the present occasion : that roads are necessary for the civilization of both the European and the Native, and I hope it will be made clear to your minds that it is not contrary to your best interests that roads should be made through the country. The particular grievances which have been referred to we will discuss on another occasion. I was particularly pleased to meet my old friend, Hoani Nahe, on the present occasion. We have sat in Parliament together. I will venture to say that no Native representative has ever been more, faithful or more active in the discharge of his duties, and I regret exceedingly that he is no longer a member of the Legislature. This is the first occasion on which I have visited the Thames. I have often heard of the loyalty of the Native people of the Thames, and I am sure that the one or two occasions on which wrong has been done—on which lives have been lost—are exceptions to the general rule, and do not affect the loyalty of the people as a whole. I say, in reference to that subject, that there is no occasion for violence; that the laws of the colony are ample to redress all grievances, and I bring you this message : that, as far as I am concerned, I am willing to discuss all questions of difference between us with the view of arriving at a just solution of all grievances that may exist. I am glad to meet you all on the present occasion, and wish you all the happiness that may be in store for you. You must all have derived great advantages from the stores of wealth which have been produced from the soil in this part of the country. You must recognize that the advent of the Europeans in this part of the country has brought you all much wealth and much happiness. I am perfectly sure that nothing will arise in the future to disturb the contentment which at present prevails. Once again I thank you for the welcome which you have given me.

of an INTERVIEW between the Hon. Mr. BALLANCE and the THAMES NATIVE COMMITTEE,
12th February, 1885,

Mr. Ballance : I have great pleasure in meeting the Native Committee of the Hauraki District. The Committee are charged with certain duties and some responsibility, and I recognize the great importance of the Committee in looking after the interests of the people. The Committee may do a great deal of good in curing abuses, remedying grievances, and seeing that no one is injured. I propose, with regard to the surveys, which is a very important thing, surveys of land intended to be passed through the Native Land Court, to have copies of all applications for surveys sent to the Chairman of the Native Committee, so that no case will be brought secretly before the Court without the Committee knowing. I would like. the Chairman to represent to the Government the grievances of the people in his own district, and that matters affecting the people should be brought before the Committee, so that they might be transmitted to the Government through the Chairman. With regard to the hearing of civil cases, I propose that they should have jurisdiction up to a certain amount ; but that agreement shall not be required before the case is brought before the Committee : that, if one Native sues another for a, small debt, he shall be compelled to bring it before the Committee, and the Committee shall decide upon it. There is one objection, that is, it is sometimes difficult to get the whole of the Committee together. It might be desirable that the Chairman and two or three members of the Committee should be appointed to sit upon these cases. Of course there would be no objection to the whole of the Committee sitting, but that would be in :aces where it would be inconvenient for the whole of them to come together. I would like the Committee to report also upon cases which are going before .the Native Land Court. It is the of the Government next session to bring in a Bill to deal with Native Lands. We propose that, when the owners of a block of land have been found out by the Native Committee, hat a Committee shall be appointed from those owners of, say, seven members, and that that Committee shall have the power of dealing with the land in the block where there are numerous wners, that is to say, if there are more than twenty owners. That Committee is different from his Committee. Then we shall have a Board appointed for a, district, to sell or lease the land. Ve intend that the Board shall consist of three members, one European, to be appointed by the

overnor, the Chairman of the District Committee, and one. Native, to be nominated by the . When the local Committee shall wish to sell or lease a portion of their block, they will

the Board; and then the Committee would arrange with the Board for the cost of surveys

roads; and then the Board would proceed to dispose of the land in accordance with the . ishes of the Committee. If the majority of the owners of the block objected to the action of the they might, by petition, stop the action of the Committee, and the Committee would

we no power to proceed any further. This will give the people power to deal with their own

the Government acting as mediator and assisting the Natives, but giving the people them-

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G.-1.

selves the right to say what shall be done with their own lands. Then, the land shall be disposed of in accordance with the land laws of the colony. For instance, land will not be allowed to be sold in large blocks if it, is agricultural land. There will be a limit placed on the size of the blocks, in order that there may be a large population placed on the land. The Government think that they have a right, for the good of both races, to prevent what is called " land monopoly for the few ;" and therefore the land shall be cut up into the smallest areas suitable for settlement. That is the limitation which the Government put upon the powers of the Committees and of the people

Hoani Nahe (Chairman of the Committee) : said that he was pleased and satisfied with what the Native Minister had said. He said that the Committee wished that, before the Bill referred to by Mr. Ballance was brought in, it should be circulated amongst the Natives. They were very

pleased to hear that they were to be allowed to manage their lands themselves. It was his opinion that, if the preliminary investigation of land were gone into by the Native Committee, it would be much easier for the Native Land Court, and thereby the Maoris would be relieved of the expenses they were now put to in attending Court and paying Court fees, &c. The Committee had great Objection to the action of the Native Land Court in charging fees. They had heard that the Natives of the Arawa had got licenses to purchase guns and ammunition, and they had heard that the reason the Arawas were so anxious to get guns was to avenge the murder of Kereopa, who was murdered by Natives some time ago. That was why they sent a notice concerning this matter to the

.wspaper, and also one to Mr. Wilkinson. They suggest that applications from the Arawas to purchase guns should be referred to the Native Committee. He asked whether it would be advisable for the Hauraki Committee to deal with matters in the Waikato and vice versa. Hoani Nahe then read some of the minutes at the last meeting of the Committee, one of which was where they wished to get some revenue to carry on their work and pay for stationery, and also with reference to the

yment of the clerk and Chairman of the Committee. It was proposed that the Chairman should

allowed to frank letters on public service, also that the Committee should have power to

issue summonses to bring anybody before it. If an amending Act to the Native Committees Act

were passed there ought to be a clause inserted so that, whenever a person falls out of the Committee,

there should be the power to elect another in his place.

Tamati Paipa spoke with reference to a dispute that existed between himself and Mr. Alley out the boundary-line of Hikutaia No. 1. He stated that Sir F. Whitaker promised to settle the lute. Several surveyers had been to survey the line.

Mr. Ballance said it was understood in the Native Department that Sir F. Whitaker had settled the whole dispute.

Tamati Paipa said that the boundary-line of Hikutaia No. 1 had not been settled. Hikutaia : No. 1 was surveyed and went through the' Court, and was subdivided, some years ago, some of land going to the Government, and some being left as Native Reserves.

Mr. Ballance : I am very much pleased at the business-like way in which the Chairman, Nahe, has brought before me the several matters relating to the Committee. It shows that Mr have given a considerable amount of attention to the duties pertaining to the office, and it has confirmed me in the opinion that the Committees are calculated to materially assist in the administration of the law in matters relating to their own people. I will now deal with the various estions that have been brought forward, one by one. It is quite right that copies of Bills

relating to the Native race should be extensively circulated amongst them before being introduced

to the Legislature, and I purpose sending to the Chairmen of the different Native Committees copies of the Bills which we intend to introduce into the House next session—that is to say, copies of the ore important measures, for sometimes there are Bills brought in with very short notice, and

we might not have time to circulate those Bills amongst the people. Those are Bills, generally, of small importance, and all the principal Bills I shall have circulated amongst them. I agree that Committees may materially assist the Land Court in inquiring into cases and making the

prelimenary investigation required of them by the present Act. The Government have long been of

opinion that the expenses of the Native Land Court are too great, and various measures have been

taken for the purpose of reducing them. I think the action of the Committees themselves may

to the reduction of those expenses. I feel myself shocked and disgusted at the enormou

attending the passing of some blocks through the Native Land Court, for it is a notorious t that some of the blocks have been entirely eaten up by the expenses of lawyers and agents, d in various other ways, the Natives deriving no benefit whatever from the sale of their lands, hile their lands have gone from them for ever. The object of the Government is to remedy these . I heard what Hoani Nahe said about the Arawas trying to obtain licenses for guns d ammunition for the purpose of making war upon some neighbouring tribe. I confess that was very much surprised at that statement, for I was under the impression that the Arawas themselves exceedingly loyal people, and I cannot now suppose that that feeling of revenge or is general amongst them, or that there is any general desire to shed blood. Perhaps hat Hoani Nahe refers to is the desire of a few men, but very few. The Arawas know that ereopa was justly punished according to law for the great crime he had committed, taking the life the Rev. Mr. Volckner ; and I believe that the Arawas themselves as a body are perfectly tisfied with the course that the law took in that case ; but I am very much obliged to Hoani

for mentioning the matter, and I am quite sure that Mr. Kenrick will be cautious in issuing making due inquiry into the character of the people who apply for them. I also

with the suggestion made by Hoani Nahe that Mr. Kenrick, when there is any doubt in

mind, should take the advice of the Native Committee. Reference has been made to a .delicate matter, viz., the Committee of one district interfering in another district. You see yourselves that, if the Committee of one district interferes in another district, it would lead great deal of jealousy, and might lead to trouble ; but it might be desirable in some cases,

matters affected both districts, or where the people of one district were affected by

G.—1.

32

the action of both Committees, that the Chairmen of the two Committees should meet together and discuss the matter amongst themselves in a friendly manner. In that way they might be able .to remove the difficulty. The matter of the expenses of the Committee is one that I am now Committee. I have already given instructions that the stationery to be used by the Committee for purely Committee purposes, he supplied by the Government free of any charge. With regard to the revenue of the Committee for general purposes, that is now under consideration, and I shall not be long before coming to a decision. As to the right of the Chairman to frank letters, I shall bring that before the Postmaster-General and consult him upon the point. With regard to the right of the Committee to issue summonses, the Act gives them power now only to deal with civil cases, and not with criminal. I am very doubtful whether the time has come for the Committee to deal with criminal eases. I think the ordinary Courts should continue to do that work. What I referred to in giving the Committee larger powers to deal with small debt cases was to give them there larger power, and, if possible, to increase the amount for which they can sue. I quite agree with what Hoani Nahe said about filling up the vacancies caused by members falling out of the Committee. That is a power possessed by all local bodies with the exception of the Committees, and shall be one of the provisions in the Bill—that .when a member falls out there shall be the right of re-election immediately. I now have touched upon all the different questions brought forward by the Committee,' and I shall just say, in conclusion, with regard to what has been said by Tamati with regard to Hikutaia Block, that I am not acquainted with all the facts, but I shall make inquiry into them, and I hope the affair can be arranged without much trouble. I trust the Committee will themselves assist in getting the matter brought to au amicable conclusion.

NOTES of a MEETING held at PARAWAI, Thames, on the 12th February, 1885, between the Hon. Mr.
BALLANCE and the HAURAKI NATIVES.

Hapi Rewi said : The first question is regarding Komata (Te Puke Block at Ohinemuri), a block that was purchased wrongfully by Mr. Thorpe. That portion of land is where the steamer at present lands passengers and goods. Tukukino owns that piece of land, and he is asserting his ownership. He built a fence on his land, which was agreed to by Mr. Mackay. It overlaps Mr. Thorpe's boundary. He built a fence to show that that piece had been taken wrongfully, and I wish to draw the attention of the Native Minister to the fact that it has wrongfully come into Mr. Thorpe's possession. Other disputes have been settled, and the Natives at Hikutaia, have got their lands back ; but this piece has not been settled yet. Tukukino still persists in his claim to 'it. Another matter is in connection with Mackaytown. It is four years since it was leased. It was exempted from the gold field. The main portion of the land in that district has been bought by the Government, but a portion has been retained by the Maoris. Now, we consider that we own Mackaytown, and as it has been leased for four years, we consider that the Government should pay us the rent. There are twenty-two shareholders who have not signed, and they want to get their proportion. The d:fliculty is, that the interests have not been subdivided yet, as it is not known which is the Government's and which is the Natives'. The third matter is, the taps-places on the Owharoa Block. Lots of applications have been made for these, but they have never been agreed to. Another matter is that the reserves that were fixed at Wailii are useless, because they are on the mountain and cannot be cultivated, and I ask you to exchange them for some lands on the flat, where we can make use of them. These lands will do for Europeans who have cattle or sheep ; but, as we have no cattle, we want lands that we can cultivate. Another matter is the tramway at Waihi Gold Fields. I do not know why the revenue from that is not paid to the Maoris. There was fifty acres put on one side for us, but there is no timber on it at all. We want that substituted for a piece within the Ohinemuri No. 7 Block, on which there is some firewood and some timber. If it is given to us within Ohinemuri No. 7, we can then get a supply of fencing and other timber. There is a road over the portion that we want, but the is broken at present ; but the Europeans are going to repair it. There is a piece called Marutatai, at Te Aroha, promised to us but it was not carried out. That is all I have got for you. I will keep some back for some other Minister. When you reply will you commence with Tukukino? Whatever matters you agree to we want in writing.

Haora, Tareranui : I am going to talk to you about the troubles of the Ngatitamatera, the tribe living at Ohinemuri. One of our troubles is connected with our reserves in the Waikawau Block. A portion of that Waikawau Block was awarded to the Government. It was sold to the Government : a portion was returned to the Maoris. After the awards were made in favour of the Maoris for the reserves, the Maoris had to pay for the surveys of them. I ask that you will do away with those claims for payment by the Natives for the surveys of the reserves, and that the Crown grants be ordered to issue to the Natives. There was one block called Waiaro which was not included in the Government survey, and we were called upon to pay for it. The Government Agent, when the land went through the Court, told the Natives that the Government would pay for all the surveys. The Government Agent was Mr. James Mackay. It was a verbal statement. It was seeing that certain reserves had been made in other places, and the Natives had not been charged for them, and it was promised that they would not be charged for the surveys in this block. With regard to the surveys in the Waikawau Block, I ask that the Crown grant should issue. Another application that we make to you is, that the Native owners of the reserve should have power to grant leases to the Europeans who wish to occupy them. Another application of ours is concerning the Native reserves in the Ohinemuri Block ; when the reserves were marked off by the Native Land Court it was on the map ; we considered that they were not in the exact positions that they would turn out to be when they came to be surveyed. We asked that, when the surveyor went on the ground, one of our people should go with him and point out the tapus, &c. ; but, when the surveys took place, we were not informed of it. We discovered afterwards that the reserves had been made in

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different places to where we intended. All these matters are. in Mr. Smith's Survey Department, and he can explain about them. I wish that you would consider the matter so as to have' it right. One of the reserves is put on the edge of the boundary of the gold fields. The reason why it was put there was that there was some firewood. When the survey of thee reserve was finished, it was found that, it did not include the firewood at all, and now we cannel get, this timber that we want. We want you to try, and have the matter set right for us. I ask that the Crown grants of the reserves in the Ohinemuri Block shall issue to us. Now I will cease to talk about those matters ; I will refer to the roads. There is one road that goes to ; it goes through Te Township. There is a Native settlement of twenty acres in that ; there is also some European land in that locality. Within the twenty acres of the Meori block is a sacred place ; there were some bodies buried there a long time ago, and it, is still used as a burial-ground ; a portion of it is precipitous. The Council have determined to run a road right through the Native cultivations. The Maoris say, "No; it should not. be so, because you take land from in; that, is available for cultivation." The Council say, " We want to do it in order to make the road straight." Now, there is an European block close to it ; the road goes over it, but the road is bent, and the Council never attempted there to straighten it ; but over this Maori land they straighten it by taking

it through the land. The portion where the road goes over the Maori land is called " Pure-o-Le Rani." Beyond that twenty-acre block is another settlement of the Natives, about, three or four acres, and the road goes right through it and takes it nearly all away ; and I ask you to give some consideration to this matter. I bring this before you because the Maoris are very incapable of doing any work for their living: the Maori means of support is being able to cultivate potatoes and other food for themselves. If this twenty-acre block is spoiled by the road, anti also the four-acre block, where is the land on which the Maoris aro to cultivate? The Natives do not agree that the. roads should be opened there. There is another road that leads front Paeroa to Te Aroha,—that is, the new road they arc laying off. They have run it right through the centre of the native lands : as soon as ever they came to a block owned by Europeans, they turned it off directly and ran it through a Native block—they avoided the European block. Whim they 'got to a piece owned by Mr. Bennett, they took only a very small portion indeed off it. As soon as they crossed the river, directly on the other side was a Native block of land all under cultivation, and they ran it right through that. This block on the other side of the river is about three acres, and the road goes right through it. The present road that goes to Te Aroha goes over the block called "'T'e Rawhitiroa," and this new road is now laid' parallel with it.

[A map was then produced by Mr. Cheal, District Surveyor, who explained the position of the road in question.]

Mr. Ballance said that a deviation of the road should be made to snit the Natives ; and, in future, surveyors would be instructed to take the road with the least possible injury to the Native cultivations.

Haora Tareranui continued : Another matter is, that, we want to have a pound erected. The reason Why we ask for a pound is that we can see plainly that there will soon be trouble on account of the absence of a pound. The Europeans' cattle are running over our land and breaking into our fences, and as soon as they break through the fences they get into the cultivations and destroy all the food,. , We have disputes with the Europeans about these matters, but because we obey the law we do not come to blows' over it. Some time ago the Europeans wanted a pound in Paeroa, and one was built, but it was never authorized. The Maoris consider that the reason the pound was never given effect to was, because the Europeans saw that they had very little land to run their cattle on,. and they would have to run them on the Maori land, and they would not have the pound, as it might be used for their own cattle. If you were to scud anybody up there you would most likely find that the cattle will have broken into' the settlements and have eaten the food. The fences are built in the same way as the European fences, but the European cattle get in; therefore, we ask that you will authorize a pound to be erected there. If you authorize a pound to be erected there, anything that is impounded should be advertised both in English awl Maori: the reason I ask this is, that pakehas are not the only owners of cattle, and Maories would like to know if any of their own stock get impounded. It has been seen that Maoris lost their horses altogether by having them impounded here they did not know anything about it, and their horses were sold. This is a personal matter of my own : Some time ago I made a claim for compensation on account

of land during Sir Donald McLean's time. Sir Donald McLean said to "Let it be till I go to Waikato, and if I hear from the Waikato chiefs that you have any claim to the land you shall have compensation." After Sir Donald. McLean's death a meeting took place at Cambridge; that was in 1876 ; Dr. Pollen was there as Native Minister. Dr. Pollen said at that meeting, that everything that -Sir Donald McLean had promised he would carry out; but, we were to meet him in the schoolhouse and lay our matters of complaint before him there. I went over to this schoolhouse, and, in the midst of the chiefs of Waikato and Ngatihaua and sonic others that were there, I said openly to him, " Hero is the word that Sir Donald McLean said to me He promised inn that when he got to Waikato he would inquire if I had any claims to Waikato lands. He told me that if the Waikato chiefs agreed that I had any. claim to Waikato lands he would give me some compensation for the loss of them ;" and when I made this statement all the chiefs that were in the schoolhouse at the time acknowledged that I had claims. Dr. Pollen then asked me who was present at the time Sir Donald McLean made this promise. I said Mr. Puckey was ; and Dr. Pollen said, "I will refer the matter to Mr. Puckey." After I came back I saw Mr. Puckey, and we sent numerous letters to the Premier. Subsequent to that, I do not remember the year, Sir F. Whitaker came to Grahamstown, and Mr. Puckey and myself saw him about it. Sir F. Whitaker said to me, "Have you not got any land?" I replied to him by saying, "Because I have land here should I lose land that I had in the Waikato?" After that Mr. Sheehan was Native Minister. I went to Cambridge—I forget the year—and I told Mr. Sheehan all about this matter. He told me that after he had been to Auckland and returned to Cambridge, then he would settle it, He went to Auckland, but I did not

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see him after that up to the time that he went out of office. After that I saw Mr. Bryce; it was in 1882, in the month of January. I laid the matter before him at Ohinemuri, and he told me that he would let it stand over till he got to Wellington. After he got to Wellington I waited to hear from him. After a long delay I wrote a letter to Mr. Wilkinson, saying that I was waiting for Mr. Bryce's reply. Mr. Wilkinson sent that letter to Mr. Bryce, and Mr. Bryce replied. There is a statement in that letter that Mr. Bryce will go into it when he comes north. When I heard that he had arrived in .Auckland I went to see him, but he would have nothing to say to me. I saw in Hansard a statement by Mr. Bryce that all applications for compensation for Waikato lands should not be considered. Therefore I consider that Mr. Bryce has dealt treacherously with me. Therefore I apply to you to give effect to my application. The writings in connection with it are in Mr. Wilkinson's possession, or in somebody else's.

Hapi said that he had forgotten to mention that there was another tapu on the Ohinemuri No. 7 Block. It has been through the Court; five acres was laid off for the tape. A sawmill has been erected on this tapu.

Tukukino said he would continence from the time of Sir Donald McLean. Sir Donald McLean said to him, "I will leave the land to you and to Te Hire; all I want is the gold—that is for Europeans. If they do not find any gold they go away. All they want to do is to go and search for it. If there is any they will remain and dig." The reason he was in opposition to the Government was on account of That is why he obstructed in those days. The Government showed him no consideration when he at last gave up to Mr. Wilkinson. My application to you now is that the place where my ancestors are buried should be given back to me; that place is where the steamer lands on the bank of the river. What I would like would be to have the portion given to the from where the steamer goes on shore to the Komata. River. You are the Minister for the Natives, that is why I speak to you about this matter. If you will agree to that will you put it in writing ? All I ask for is ten acres there. There is another matter I want to speak about—namely, the European who is living near inc. At last I find out how bad an European can be. Had it not been that I [addressing Mr. Wilkinson] considered the way you and I had arranged matters we should have come to blows. The pakeha's name is White. This European killed all my pigs without any reason, but I instructed my people not to molest him because it had been said that if any trouble were to occur in Hauraki Tukukino would be the cause of it. [Tukukino thought that trouble of that sort should be done away with and that the European should be done away with. Tukukino then referred to the timber within the gold fields, at a place called Waitekauri, and said he had a promise from Sir Donald McLean that it should be left for him personally, and he still holds to his claim, as he hats never received payment for it, and the timber on the land here has all been paid for and cut ; but the timber in the Ohinemuri Block, extending as far as Hikutaia, has never been paid for. He asks that the Government should give him payment for it. It is at a place called Waitekauri, at Ohinemuri. Maritoto is close to it. He includes them both in his remarks. He has often referred to this matter before, and will persist in his claim until he gets some satisfaction. Another matter refers to the stones in the Komata Creek. The Europeans take them out of the creek without giving any recompense for them. When they first commenced to take the stones they took them from the land owned by Te Moananui, and they (Europeans and Maoris) quarrelled about it. They assaulted each other, and the Natives took the stones that the Europeans hail got in a cart, and threw them all out. The owner of the stones did not arrange with the Europeans about them, but some other people took upon themselves to make the arrangement. After they had 1»aile this arrangement they took payment on account.]

Haora Tareranni said that lie would explain what Tukukino meant. These lands are not passed through the Court; the arrangement was made by some Natives who professed to have a claim to the land. Moananui said that had the land been through the Court it would have been all right for the people who claimed it to sell the stones. So the interpreter was told that they should go and buy stones from land which had been through the Court and of which the owners are known. The stones were wrongfully purchased, extending up to a place called Kurere, which is not through the Court. The trouble is that some Maoris give up the stones and others refuse to do so. The arrangement that he (Haora) wants to make is, that the contractors should get the stones and not pay any of the purchase-money, but an arrangement should be made between the people who sell the stones and the people who do not want to sell them that the money should be paid into the bank. The interpreter got some friends on the part of those who wanted to take money for the stones, and they arranged it by taking money on account. The reason Tukukino referred to it was because he was afraid that the principle should continue to be in existence. At the time of the quarrel with the Europeans Mr. William Nicholls, the interpreter, said there was no law about the matter at all. Here a Native said to Nicholls," If there is no law about it I can shoot you, and there will be no trouble about it."

lire Ballance: I have heard the speeches which you have all made upon a great number of subjects to-day. You have gone into a great many matters of detail with regard to roads and reserves. Many of these details are not known to me, and will require that they should be carefully inquired into before any decision is arrived at. The first speaker referred to Komata, which is held under Crown grant. lie must be aware that a Crown grant cannot be easily disturbed; in fact, it cannot be disturbed at all. Tukukino claims to have sonic right to the land on the ground that it is a tapu, or sacred place. Why was the land sold in the first instance; and why did he not put in his claim at the time? However, that shall not prevent inquiry for the purpose of ascertaining whether Tukukino has any just claim to the land. I am sorry to hear that Tukukino cannot live on friendly terms with his neighbour, and that he has met with the worst European in the land. Tukukino may be slightly prejudiced in this case, and has measured the badness of the man by the strength of his own convictions mid claims. I am glad, however, to hear that Tukukino dill not light the European when he threatened him. In that instance the Maori showed himself much superior to the pakeha ; and I admire Tukukino greatly for his forbearance, for that is a

35   G.—1.

quality, from what I had heard, which is quite opposed to Tukukino's character ; and now I hope that in future all these questions will be settled quietly and peaceably after discussion, end in the way that Tukukino proposes they should be settled to-day. I will make inquiry into the matters ho has referred to, and see, if possible, that justice he done. The next question is the rents derived from the reserves and land at Mackay town. I recognize that the Maoris are entitled to the rents from the land which has not yet been acquired by the Government from the Natives: it is only fair that these rents should be paid to them, and I will see that they are paid. References have also been made to the tapus in various blocks of land. I can only say, with regard to those, that they will be carefully looked into; and, if the Natives arc suffering any injustice in respect of these tapus, the remedy will be applied. It is impossible for me to-day to give any more positive reply

they have been inquired into. Hapi Rewi has referred to reserves at Waihi, which, he says, are

useless, and would like to have exchanged. I will also inquire into that subject; but I think that some application ought to have been made sooner for the exchange of these reserves. It is a very difficult thing to affect reserves after they are once made and after the surveys have taken place. If there has been any mistake in the boundaries of these reserves—in excluding the timber which the Maoris reasonably expected—I shall take care that the surveys are rectified. Then reference has again been made to the tramway, and the Natives think that they should receive a portion of the money from the tramway running over Native land. I am inclined to agree with them that they are entitled to this money; and that grievance also shall be remedied. With regard to the timber reserve at Ohinemuri, I am told that some mistake has been made in the matter, and I will see what can be done in the way of redressing that grievance. Application has been made by Haora with regard to doing away with surveys for certain reserves at Waikawau. I admit that the usual rule is that, when reserves are set aside for Natives, the surveys shall be done at the expense of the Government, I do not know why au exception was made in this case; but I will refer the question to the Surveyor-General, and ask him why the Maoris are charged with the cost of the surveys; and I will inform them of the result of the inquiry. Also reference has been made to the granting of leases to Europeans; the Natives wish to have the power to lease their own lands. I am expressing my own opinion when I say that I think it is desirable to give the Natives every facility for leasing their own lands to Europeans. The Europeans can, in the great majority of eases, occupy the Native lands with great benefit both to the Natives and to themselves; and it is desirable that the Natives, where they wish to do so, should be drawing rents for leases of these lands. Wherever, therefore, applications arc received from the Natives to lease their own lands, those applications will be received with favour; and, subject to restrictions to prevent abuse, we shall assist the Natives in leasing the lands. I have heard what has been said with regard to the question of roads which have been taken through sonic of the reserves and cultivations. Instructions have been given to the surveyors in several cases to avoid, as far as roads being taken through cultivations. If in any case roads have been taken through cultivations and through reserves where they could have been taken otherwise, it has been done there contrary to instructions, or because there was no better line for the road. In one case, where the plan of the road was produced, it was shown by the surveyor that the road was taken in that direction because it would be a better line of road—that is, it would save a great distance; but good was accomplished, because a slight deviation was suggested by the surveyor which will, to a large extent, meet the objections which have been raised ; and I propose that in all cases the matter should be referred in the first instance to the Native Committee, and the Chairman of the Native Committee should bring the matter before the Chief Surveyor of the district or before the Resident Magistrate, and that inquiry shall take place into the alleged grievance. An application has been made for a pound. When I was in the Waikato an application was made that there should be no pound. I suppose a desire for a pound is an indication of the advancing civilization of the Natires of this part of the country. I, however, have no power to grant the request which has been mate for a pound; that must be done by the local body—by the Road Board or by the County Council; and you must apply to the local body to grant you a pound. If cattle trespass upon your land you have a right by law to sue for trespass ; and I am informed that you have not beet' slow to avail yourselves of the privilege in the past : that Haora, who made the request for a pound, has himself been successful in suing where cattle have trespassed upon his land. There is also a provision here in the amending Act which gives you power to impound cattle upon your own land ; and this provision will be explained to you afterwards by Mr. Wilkinson. Now, reference has been made to a claim for compensation on the part of Haora, which, he says, was promised to him by Sir Donald McLean. He has shown that he has followed up his clai»t with all diligence and energy ; and he has convinced me also that Sir Donald McLean gave him a sort of promise. I will look further into this matter, and see what can be done. It is probable that I shall advise him to send a petition down to the House, which is the proper course to be taken in all these cases. Now I think it was Tukukino who had referred to the timber at Waitekauri ; I do not know what right he has to the timber there. I would like to have a conversation with him upon the subject after the meeting is over ; and, if he can convince me that he has any right to those trees, I shall see that justice is done in the matter. I cannot see that very much injury has been done in taking the stones from the creek. The Natives sued the County Council, obtained a judgment, and were successful. The only grievance has arisen where the land had not passed through the Court, and where the wrong person has sold the right to take the atones. I think, however, it is very probable that they can arrange that matter among themselves. I would suggest that they should refer it to the Chairman of the Native Committee to decide between them. Where the land was passed through the Court, then the owners will have been ascertained, and there is no fear of any injury being done. That is one reason why the Natives 'themselves should he anxious that the land should be passed through the Court. In reference to this subject, Taipari has asked that a Court should sit here as soon as possible; and I have promised that I shall do all that is in my power, and get a sitting of the Court here at no distant date. I have taken steps also that the expense of putting land

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through the Court shall be very much lessened in future, so that injury will not be done to the Natives in taking away their land by indirect means. On all these various questions that you have raised to-day I shall take sonic stops by making inquiry and seeing that the merits of the case are properly ascertained. If I cannot grant your request I shall let you know, and where I can grant your requests I shall be happy to do so.

Paora Tianga said that he was one of the persons Who caused trouble in connection with the survey of die Block. The reason he objected to the survey was that he saw that trouble would ensue to the people owning the land. An arrangement hits been made with the Ngatimaru, and they have laid olf their boundary line; but as soon as their line arrived at the Ngatihako boundary he (Paora) stopped it. Thu reason lie obstructed it was that he was not aware that the Ngatihako had any with the Government in respect of their part.

Pincaha said that lie had had no Government money on account of the Piako Block. The Ngatimaru had no money on account of theirs, and the Ngatihako had none on account of their share, Ngatipaoa had the money. Another question is about the railway that goes runlet a block called Te Rae-o-te Papa. If the railway goes round there he wants to have a clear arrangement made first, as he is not clear about them taking the railway in that place. He complains about the snags that have been taken out of the Waihou River; that is, where they get the eels from. He held on, and would not give them up mail Mr. Bryce Came, who took them away by The Government, through Mr. Bryce, took those things away, and gave no consideration for them. Ile (Te Wharekohai) will have to fell a kahikatea and let it fall into the river so its to make a place for the eels. Mr. Bryce paid the people who worked in the creek to take those things out, but the owners of them received no consideration. To Wharekohai said that this was causing him a great deal of darkness, and if something was not done he would have to fill up that river again with trees. Now the that get up the rivers are continually carrying away the hanks; and seine Europeans cut down a tree that had some dead bodies in the branches, and they drifted away in the river. Another complaint is about a block of land called To Rito-o-te Atua. Tire person who got it Was out an owner, and the people who owned it were absent front the Court, and they did not get There is another black called Pohututaka, of which Te Wharekohai and his people are the owners, but it was passed through the Court and others got it. Another is Waihou No. 4 Block, which was passed through the Court and given to some people other than the owners. He has considered for a number of years past, and decided not to break the law, so he refers these matters to the Native Minister. This Waihou No. 4 is out of their hands without any good reason. The case was decided in his absence.

Mr. Ballance: I will now reply to Paora, as he says he desires to go away. He has complained that the survey night affect his interests in the Piako Block, but he has not shown it clearly. How can the interests of the Ngatihako Tribe be ascertained unless the survey is first made? It is tire Court that has to ascertain the title, and the Court cannot proceed to ascertain the title until the survey has been made. The fact that he has not received money, and that some have received money, would not affect his claims, for the Court would have power to cut out his block and hand it over to him, giving the other portions to the tribes who had sold their land and received the money. I would, therefore, ask him to reconsider the matter, and see whether he would consent to the survey, and to the Court sitting to ascertain his title. The Government do not wish to press this matter, but will give time for discussion, and I hope they will quickly arrange among themselves so as to allow the survey to go on and the Court to sit. Reference has been made to the survey for the line of railway over the land owned by the speaker. How could the railway affect his land? His land would remain to him after the railway was nettle, and be more valuable than it was before. The tribes in all parts of the Island are asking for railways, because they know that tire railways give increased value to the land. I am afraid, therefore, that our friend is behind the times in objecting to railways. if lie will only make inquiry he will see that the making of the railway does not take the land from him. Nothing can dispossess him of the land to which he is entitled; and I strongly advise him to ask that the railway be plashed on before lie dies, although I can see that he will live many years yet. I am glad to hear from him that he has considered the , advisability of upholding the law. I can assure hint in regard to that statement that he is a very much better Man than before, for the law will protect both him and his land, and allow not one single acre of hand to be taken from him without fair compensation for it. If land were taken on Which to build the railway he would be paid for that land according to its value, and therefore he would be a richer man alter the railway is made titan before. As to the lifting of snags out of the Waihou River for the purpose of improving the navigation, I am sure he will see that that must be a great benefit to hint if lie has got land on the banks of the river. When I was up the nui River all the Maoris on each side of the river asked that the snags should be taken out of it; they were willing that the eel-weirs should be all removed in order that the steamers Wright go up and down. Now the value of their lands would be greatly increased, and food, which was scarce before, would be enormously increased. Then, again, his young men would find employment upon the railways and receive money; that would buy sufficient food for theta without eels. These are the opinions of the most enlightened amongst the Natives at the present time. He complains that the Land Court has decided adversely to him in some claims, but he admits that he was absent ; the responsibility there rests on his own shoulders. Why was he absent? If he had been there he might have maintained his title. The Court is not responsible for absent people; they ought to look after their own rights. In (miller to prevent people front being taken by surprise in future I have given instructions that all applications to bring land before the Court shall be submitted to the Native Committee of the district, so that in future the people will be able to learn from the Committee whether any of their lands are affected. He will see, therefore, that in all these matters ample provision has been made for the protection of himself and his people.

Hoani Nahe said that he would speak about sonic things that Ngatimaru wished to refer to the Minister. One is the Kauaeranga Bridge. The Maoris have no road to their land, but they have

37   G.—1.

to go on the railway-line to get to the road, Mr. Spencer's land lying between them and the road. He asks that some arrangement might be made by which they can get a right-of-way through this man's land to the main road. There is a block of land owned by a Maori through which four roads have been taken. These roads were taken over the block of land not as public roads but as private

roads. The reason why they were able to take these four roads over tile one block of land because the Government gave them the power to do so; if the Government had lea agreed to it it. could not have been done; therefore he asks the Government to consider this ease and find a road out for the Natives, This Mr. Spencer, who will not grant these people a read, has It been a member of the Council, and he has solicited the: Maoris to give up portions of their hands for roads. Mr. Spencer was one who was meet strenuous in getting the Main county road pat through ever Maori land. When Mr. Bryce had a meeting, a Native stood up and said that Spencer had offered him a buggy to allow the road to go through his land. Now, according to this, Mr. Spencer really owes the Natives a buggy, and he ought to make up for this by giving the Natives a, road. Another matter is, that when the Native Volunteers were disbanded they returned the titles, except two,

which were missing, but were paid for; the    missing missin rifles have since turned up, and the Natives

ask to be allowed to keep them. They also ask missing One of the targets that was given by Sir Donald McLean may be given to them, and also a small supply of ammunition to practice with. There is a block of land called Kahakaharoa. Before the land writ through the Court it was occupied by some Europeans, but he (Nahe) heard that the Government leased it to the Europeans. These Europeans have a number of cattle running upon it, and they have cut down the timber. He thought that the rents which have been paid on that block, or which have accumulated, is a large amount. After the heel wcut through the Court Nahe's people were found to he the owners of it. The European who was living on it was mulled J. Lewin. The Native owners of the land wish that they should receive what has come out of it in the way of payments for the timber, or rent. With reference to the Court to be held at the Thames, leant said it Was proposed that this Court should only be for land about which there is no dispute.

Pepene said lie had three things to remark about : the first one is in connection with Te Aroha. They sent in applications concerning that during the past year. The reply was, that a Court should be granted for it, but afterwards Mr. Gill stopped it. What they wish is, that this land should be brought before the Court, and then it would come out in Court whether the Government has obtained that portion of the land. Mr. Gill said that the Ngaiterangi people sold tins land to the Government. They replied, "You and the Ngaiterangi come into Court and prove that." Mr. Gill said, "No; I do not agree to have it before the Courts" If this matter is brought into the Court it will be settled at once, and if they lose they will drop it. If this is not done they will continually press for a Court. They object to the hearing being stopped by Mr. Gill. What, they want is that the Government should not interfere to stop the hearing. second word is regarding Tiepa, a piece of land within the To Aroha, Block. There has been a great deal of disputing about this land. He thinks this should be allowed to go into the Court, also. The remarks made about To Aroha, apply also to this piece. The third matter is regarding the het springs at Te Aroha. He complains that they are charged when they go to bathe there. If this regulation is allowed to exist it is really overriding the original agreement that they had with the Government. This statement about admitting them free was only a verbal one. Messrs. Wilkinson and Mackay conducted the arrangement.

Tamati Pactai said that he was one who threw open his land for the county road. The reason was that a law was made then that the Maoris should not be charged rates. That arrangement extended wherever the road went, up to the end of the Hauraki boundary. They want to have a distinct assurance that they will not be charged rates. The road has been laid oil to go over their lands. They want the agreement by which they were not to be charged rates to be enforced in the future. Another subject is in reference to the Wharekawa No. 1 Block on the East Coast. it was originally leased by Hohepa Paraoue and Miriama Konehu to Mr. O'Keefe. At that time it had neither been surveyed nor passed through the Court ; subsequently it was passed through' the Court and given in favour of two grantees. The grantees were Hohepa Paraone and Miriama Kon-hu. The lease of O'Keefe lapsed, and the land was thee purchased by the Government—that is, Hohepa Paraone's share. They have searched in the bill of the sale but hind that Miriama Konchu's name is not there. The reason he mentions it is that Miriama Konehu is dead and lie (Tamati Paetai) has been appointed by the Court as trustee for the younger child.

Kapihana to Tuhi spoke about the land at Te Puriri. This land was purchased by the Commiesioner with pipes and Bibles, and other trivial articles, and they now want to know how they can get the land back again. He also objected to the dog-tax being collected from him. There is another matter in connection with the block called Taparahi Nos. 1 and 2. The Tairua Company surveyed their land and it was put through the Court. He mentioned this in order that the Court might not give judgment against him. The company have done this because they wanted to include a lot of Lauri timber in their block. The company has purchased the No. 1 Block, but No. 2 is still in the hands of the Maoris, but the company have taken in a portion of it. Another matter is concerning a block of land at Oroua. The old survey has been ignored altogether, and the new line has been put in another place.

Tamati Waka spoke about Wairua to Rangiatapu, over which a road has been run by the Council. He thinks the road through the Totara should be sufficient, and that the other should not be gone on with. Another matter is in connection with the final payment on the Moehau gold field block. The Government has some money that he ought to have.

Wiremu Turipona said ho wanted to speak about the lighthouse at Pokohinu, to which he has a claim. It is for the Government to prove that lie has no ownership.

* Land between the eastern boundary of To Aroha Block and the western boundary of the Katikati and Te Puni pnrchase.—G.T.W.

G.—1.   38

Te Meremana complained that the Government had paid everybody except him for taking a water-race ow- the hills.

Hakipene Hum spoke about Hikutaia No. 1, that was sold by two Natives, and a number of owners did not agree to the sale. That European, to whom it was sold by the two, took possession as a sum. The land was not leased, and when that European failed the creditors seized the place lie was living on as an asset in his estate. He (Hakipene) wants it returned to the Native owners. That of hand is within the boundaries of the block owned by the Natives. [Hikutaia No. 1 Block.] Another matter is about the land taken for the railway. Ohoupo Nos. 1 and 2 are the pieces in dispute. He has applied to the person in charge of the railway line to pay him for that piece, but has net got the money. Another subject he has to speak about is the kauri timber on Hikutaia No. 2 and Whangamata No. 3 Blocks. These lands were put through the Court at Short-land, and the Government then purchased them. Fourteen owners received payment, and four were allowed to receive a separate payment on account of the kauri timber. There were two purchases, one for the timber and one for the land; fourteen were paid for the land and four for the timber. The twenty-seven people did not get any payment for the kauri timber. These twenty-four were the owners of Hikutaia No. 2, and thirty were in the Whangamata No. 3 Block. Thirty owners obtained payment for the land, and four only obtained payment for the timber, and these four who got money for the timber were part of the thirty who got payment for the land. He thinks the Government. ought to consider this matter, and pay the others who did not get' so much as the four.

Matiu Pono said he would refer to the matter spoken of by Moremana—namely, the water-race. Some landowners, over whose land the race runs, have been paid, some have not. His (Matiu's) portion was not paid. For about a mile it runs over laud owned by himself and his hapu, which has not been paid for, extending no to the reservoir within the gold fields. There is a piece at the reservoir owned by his and another hapu. The reservoir is owned by them. They have never been paid for time water going over their land, and their land has suffered by caving-in and other matters through the water-race being opened over it. Sir Donald McLean promised that the matter should be settled some other time. Matiu Pono went on to say that he was ready to give up land for roads without asking for payment. He has received a notification from the Thames Borough Council to pay for sonic land at Tararu. There are a number of them who have claims to land over which the road goes at Coromandel, and they have been asked to pay rates. They have given up the land for nothing for the roads, and do not think that they should be charged for rates, and ask that the rates should not be enforced. He (Pono) would not agree yet that the land over which the railway goes should be surveyed. With reference to the land that has been surveyed in the past, the surveyors have asked the Maoris to write to the Government requesting them to pay the surveyors for their labour, that the Government. should settle with them. He would agree to this if the Government would lay no claim to the land, having paid for the surveys. If the Government do not put the payment they niche to the surveyors as a lien upon the land he is willing that they should pay them. Another matter is about the Europeans who go out and catch flat fish on the mud flats. All those toed flats are owned by the Hauraki people. He wishes the Minister to stand up for them in this matter.

Epeniha said he would speak about the reward that has been published for the finding of gold in the Thames District. Asks that money should be paid to no other people than those of Hauraki.

Mango said that he gave up his land for the gold to be worked, and considered that he should have been paid money when the gold was got. Mr. Puckey was appointed to pay the miners' rights fees to them; but, after he left, the payments on the three blocks—Kauaeranga No. 13, and Tutukaka—dwindled down to almost nothing. When Mr. Wilkinson was appointed, he claimed front hint payment on account of Kauaeranga No. 13, but never gut it. After Mr. Wilkinson went away he demanded it front Mr. Konrick. Mr. Remick told him that there was no revenue from there. The money he gets from Tutukaka is very small; it is only for residence sites but he considers diet it is not right that he should be put off with only the fees for residence sites. Some of the lands that they gave for gold mining are now lying idle, and they want the Government to remove the Goldfields Regulations from those lands where there is no.

Ngapari said there had been a road taken through a tapu, to which he objected. The Europeans climb up and go over it, and when the fence is broken by Europeans climbing over the cattle get in. He wishes the Minister to give effect to the tapu, to keep people from going on it. When Mr. Shee au was Native Minister lie spoke to hen about land called Te    he did not receive the payment for it. During Mr. Bryee's time he applied for a payment of Native revenue from Grahaunstown.

A Native (whose name could not be ascertained) said that he applied, in 1874, for dead people's shares in some land. The people who made the order said that they had leased. The name of the block is Tapapa No. 1, at Te Puriri. He put the land through the Court. Has never been able to do anything in the absence of the map. Another matter is in connection with a block called Arikirau No. 3 ; he applied for the shares of some dead people, but never got a hearing.

Hohepo asked for a Government medical officer at Coromandel, and asked that the appointment should be restored to Dr. Hovell. Another matter is with regard to people getting oysters on the beach frontages of their lands ; think that these people should pay a license-fee to the Natives.

Te Raika said he had been appointed a trustee for eight children of a man named Utuku; the name of the block in which he was interested is Pukewhau. When their father died and they were left orphane they had no house to live in, and asked that he (Raika) should dispose of their parents' interest, in the land and build them a house, to which he agreed. When he signed the deed the house had been commenced. When he signed he asked for payment of the moneys in the

39   G.—1.

bank. He (Raika) referred the matter to the Chief Judge, who requested him to send a copy of the deposit-receipt of the bank, which he will have received by this tune. He (Raika) thinks it would be well if the money were forthcoming, in order that lie can pay for this house for the children. The house is finished, and the carpenter has been good enough not to press him very much for money. He has applied to the carpenter for the bill, but has net been able to pay it.

Himipura said he wished to speak about the money that he should get out of Te Aroha Block. Previous to the investigation of this block by the Court it was arranged that he was to have this money, but before he got paid the money the land passed the Court, and he was absent, having received no notice that the land was to be put through the Court. When the land went through the Court, all his claims on it wont with the land, extending up to a portion of the block called Manawaru, which was given by the Government to some other Natives than the owner. The way that land was put through the Court had the appearance of robbing the Natives. He would like to know whether his name was to the original deed of cession of the Aroha I Block; he is waiting to know if he is to go to get the money; he wishes that the Government should pay hint now in satisfaction of his claims that were lost to him by that investigation, of which lie did not receive any notice.

Parata te Mohu spoke in connection with the gold field at Manaia, which is owned by them: it is land that has not yet been passed through the Court or surveyed. When the Hauraki gold field was put through the Court there were no surveys then, and the money was paid to Taipari and some others. He does not want, to have that block surveyed; and if there is any money to be paid on account of that gold field he wishes it to be paid to himself for the people. The only surveys on it are the surveys of men for their claims. He has no money to pay for the surveys.

W. H. Taipari complained that they were to be rated on account of the road for a distance of forty or fifty miles from Tararu right to To Aroha. lie referred to the county road. These are people of whom it was said they were not to be charged any rates. What Matiu said with regard to the matter is right, and also his statement about the fish. He (Taipari) has seen his lawyers about it, and asked them to summons the men who get the fish; the lawyer said that the best way would be to send a petition to Parliament about it.

Mr. Ballance: Taipari has made a very good proposal—that the grievances which have not now been dealt with should be held over till I return again. I think, however, that you have brought, forward a pretty good list of grievances, and if you get them answered you ought to be pretty well satisfied. I can conceive no grievance which you have not introduced to-day. You have referred to so many that you have introduced the same thing over and over again. I will begin by referring to the grievances brought forward by Hoani Nahe. I can hardly call them grievances, because they are reasonable requests. I am sorry that the Volunteer corps has not been maintained in this district; but I am glad to hear that, although you are not still enrolled, you are acting the part of Volunteers. I would like to say more upon this question of volunteeri rig, but I have not time. Hoani has asked that two guns, which were paid for, should be allowed to be retained by the Volunteers of Hauraki. I think that is a very proper request. I am quite willing they should retain them; in fact, since they have paid for them, they may be considered their own. As to the request for a target, that also I shall grant. Hoani has referred to the land leased by the Europeans; that matter I shall look into. He wishes to have the Native Land Court as quickly as possible, but thinks that no land should be brought before it which is in dispute. I do not know what he alludes to; because after all most land that is brought before the Native Land Court is in dispute. I have said that the Native Committee may materially assist in settling these disputes, so that, when the land does come before the Court, there will be little difficulty. Pepene has referred to some land at Te Aroha, and be thinks that the Government should not stop the hearing; he shows great confidence in the Land Court, and is willing that the Land Court should settle the dispute between himself and the Government. He also refers to another block of land called Tiepa, and is willing that the Land Court should also there decide. It is a very fair challenge on his part, and I accept the challenge: the matter will not be stopped, but will be allowed to be settled by the Land Court. If the Land Court awards the land to the Natives, well and good. Then, he referred to the hot springs at Te Aroha, and thinks that the agreement has been broken, on the ground that a small charge is made to the Natives for admission to the springs, but the charge only applies to some of the springs; the others are free to all. Then, in the case where the charge is made, no distinction is made between the Europeans and the Natives. The charge is a very trifling one, and has been put on simply to pay the cost of the improvements which have been made. The springs have been enclosed and made private for those who use and enjoy thorn. Why should the Natives therefore refuse to pay a small sum when the Europeans are willing? I hope they will look at this matter in a reasonable light, and see that what has been done is a. very reasonable and fair thing. I do not agree with him that the agreement has been broken. They are open for everybody. The charge that has been made is only to recoup the cost which has been incurred in improving the springs which attract people to the district, and really enhance the value of the land which belongs to the Natives. Now, Tamati has alluded to the county road, and thinks there should be no rates upon the land. I am aware that there are no rates now imposed on it, but the law requires that, when the titles of Natives are individualized, then rates may be charged, and the reason is this: that the road improves the value of the land, whether it belong to Europeans or to Natives. If the Native lands derive benefit from the roads, why should they not contribute to maintain them? But it was said that au agreement was made that no rates should be charged when the land was first handed over. I cannot understand that such an agreement should have been made, because no private person has a right to say that the law shall not be enforced. I think, therefore, it is only reasonable that, when the Native obtains his title to the land, he should stand in exactly the same position as the European. Wherever I have gone the Natives have made that one request invariably—that there should be no distinction made between them and the Europeans. With regard to the land that has not been passca through the Court, or which is held by a great number of people and cannot be used, that is a different

40

matter ; and I think we should be very cautions before we ask the Natives to pay rates where they cannot use the lent. So far I agree with them. Tamati has also said that one reason why the Natives should not pay rates is because they have no wealth, but the Natives are really more wealthy than the They may not have more money to spend, but they have more land, and land is the great source of wealth in every country in the world. I hope you will turn your land to such account that you May yourselves to be the wealthiest people in the colony. If you squander your land, von will soon be poor: if von use it properly you will have plenty of money, and be able to become wealthy. Reference has been made to certain blocks of land. I have no particulars or facts regarding this land that you have referred to to-day, but in all those eases I shall refer the matter to Mr. Wilkinson, and ask him to make an inquiry into the facts; and then, if there are any real grievances, I will see that they are redressed. I have placed on record all that you have said with regard to those blocks of land to which you have referred. None of your speeches shall be lost sight of; all that von have said wilt he carefully inquired into, and you will hear further with reference to them. The Rev. William Turipona has referred to a lighthouse on land which he claims as his own. I would like to say, with regard to that, that the fact that a lighthouse is erected upon land does not mean that the land has been taken from the Native owners, and therefore, when he saw the lighthouse, it was no evidence that the land had passed from him, if it at the time really belonged to him; but I ate informed that the land does not belong to him, but really belongs to the Crown ; and if the heel does belong to him, it is for him to prove it. I am only giving him the statement which I have received; and, if the land does really belong to him, I have no doubt he will be able to make good his title. The matter of compensation for land taken for the railway has been referred to by Hakipene, and a Government officer told him that he was not prepared to pay the money, if I understood him. I will inquire into this subject, and see that the money, if it is due, is paid over. The Government compensates the Natives for land taken for railways, and, if the land was taken from any Native, the money will be paid to him which has been awarded as compensation. The same remarks will apply to the water-races which have been referred to; I will inquire into that subject, and see that any money which is due is paid over. Matiu Pono and Taipari have referred to fish, and another Native has referred to oysters. This is a matter of law, whether Europeans have a right to fish on the foreshore. They may have a right, for they have a right to fish in the ocean, I will make inquiry, and find out whether really they have any rights or not. I am inclined to think they have rights—that you cannot prevent them by law from catching either fight or oysters. Then, again, reference has been made to roads over the tapet country. I referred to that before, and told you that the surveyors had received instructions to be very cautions where they took roads. In all these matters, if you bring your complaints before the Government Agent, they will be carefully inquired into. Hohepa has applied for a Government medical officer at Coromandel. At one time a small sum was paid to the medical officer there for attending the Natives, but I am told that the climate was so good, or the Natives so very strong, that the services of a medical matt were not really required, and the doctor hail so little to do that the Government thought it was not worth while to pay him £25 a year for doing next to nothing, I congratulate the Natives 'of Coromandel on their satisfactory condition, and T hope that they are not now in a worse state than when the services of the doctor were not required. I may say generally, with regard to the services of medical men, that where the Government find the Natives require the services of a medical man, they are willing to pay for them, and when representations have been made to us that there has, been sickness amongst the Natives, the services of a medical man has always been called in. If we should find, therefore, at any future time that the Natives of Coromandel require the services of a doctor, we shall see that they are placed at their disposal, Te Raika, has referred to the fact that he is trustee for eight children, and asks that the Government shall see about money that is coming to them. I shall make immediate inquiry into that matter, and hasten the payment of the money, so that the house which has been built for them shall be paid for. With regard to the Manaia gold field, I am told that the money cannot be paid until the owners of the land are ascertained. The money is now in the hands of the Warden awaiting the information which will enable him to pay the money to the rightful owners. I shall, therefore, ask Parata to assist in pushing on the survey. He says he has no money for the survey, and that is the reason why it does not go on; but I think there should be no difficulty in getting the money advanced, or inducing some private surveyor to undertake it, if they know that the money is in the hands of the Warden, and will be paid over to them when the survey is made. They have only to arrange that the money shall be deducted for the cost of the survey out of the first moneys coming to them. I have now gone over most of the questions which have been referred to. I have told you that, in reference to those matters that concern the titles of land, they shall be inquired into. I have not now the information at my disposal which would enable me to give you final answers, but none of those subjects shall be neglected. As I have said, I hope to have the pleasure of seeing you at no distant period; it may be before the next session of Parliament in June, but I am not certain; it may be deferred until after the session, but I shall be happy to receive from you at all times any letters asking for information or the redress of grievances. I again recommend you to use your Committee for the purpose of assisting you in inquiring into these matters. It is the desire of the Government to encourage and to strengthen these Native Committees, so that they may assist the Government in the work of administration, and be of use to the Native people. I explained to the Committee this morning the larger powers we propose to confer upon them, and they will explain that to you. I hope we shall get on well in future, and that permanent peace and friendly feeling shall be established between the two races. I can assure you that it is the strong desire of the Parliament to make laws which will be of equal benefit to the two races; and when any of you feel that you have suffered an injury, your best recourse is to the law. The Government is strong to assist the weak; and it is my earnest desire to so administer the Native Department that no one shall be able to say we have acted partially or with favour, but that all shall be treated with equal justice.

Mrs. Dipcka Turepona said that she had put in some claims to the Government for some land

41   G.—1.

that she and her hapu had at Tauranga. She was never in rebellion. Another question is about the lands that Moananui sold to the Government. A of her hapu never received any payment for this land. She had commenced to send in applications in 1878 that the Government should give them some proportion of the land that was contiscated, and also something out of the land that was sold by Te Moanamui. The replies were that she had no claim to the lands. She has sent in applications from 1878 to 1884, and has not been lazy in the matter. Mrs. Turipona here read one of the letters that she got in reply.] She has three claims—one through the conliscation, one by the sale by Te Moanamui, and one regarding the external boundary of the Tauranga, lands.

Hoani Nahe said he would forego what he had to say about his own matters, and would refer to what had been said by Ripeka. During the time he was a member of the House he received several letters front her, and made inquiries of Mr. Clarke and some others regarding them, and discovered that in this district and in the Taranaki District there were number of Natives who took part in the rebellion and there was a certain number who, did not. After the lighting was over a Court was established to inquire into the claims of the different people; and the People who attended these Compensation Courts were appointed to look after the land given to themselves and others of their own tribe who were not attending the Court. These people who were appointed sold the laud without the consent of the others. After these inquiries he was able to reply to the letters that Mrs. Turepona sent him. Hoani Nahe went on to say that he was not quite. clear about the Minister's reply about the right of road across Spencer's land. lie wants the Minister to write him an authority to the person in charge of the Government stores to enable him to remove one of the targets.

Mr Ballance: I am told that the claims which have been advanced by Ripeka have been heard and inquired into repeatedly, and the answer that has been always made is this that she has no claim against the Government, but only against her own people; that, if wrong has been done, it has been done by the hapu to which she belongs in abusing the trust reposed in them; and the speech of Hoani Nahe seems to confirm that. However, it is still open to her to press her claims. She can petition the House, and a further inquiry will lie made: that is her right ; and the Government is strong, as I have said, to protect the weak when the weak are right. I overlooked the point referred to by Nahe about the road through private land. I am under the impression that it is the County Council that has the right to take roads through private lands. I think that. after the liberal way in which the Natives behaved in giving land for the county road, private individuals in the County Council Should give a road for the Maoris: and I shall look into the matter and have representations made to the County Council.

Pereki said he was in trouble about a piece of land called which was surveyed by Mr. Rowe. He made three applications to the Chief Surveyor to ratify that survey, but he

not do it. The Chief Surveyor said he would find the surveyor to do the work. He thinks perhap from that that Mr. Rowe has not got a surveyor's license. He paid Mr. Rowe a part of the money for the survey of the land.

Mr. Ballance said that he would represent to the Chief Surveyor the position in which Pereki was.

Arani Watene referred to the timber on the block of land at Tararu which was cut wit authority. The rule that the Government have laid down is that the Land should be first pussed through the Court; but the timber on this land was sold a long time ago, and the Government paid the money over to the Natives. When the land was passed through the Court, it was found that Arani Watene and her people were the owners of it, and not the people who received the money for the timber. Since the land has been adjudicated in their favour she finds the timber has been all cut down. Considers that the Government is responsible, mid that they should pay her something because the Government paid these moneys away.

Mr. Ballance said that if Arani Watene would send him a letter lie would consider the matter.

NOTES of a MEETING between the Hon. Mr. BALLANCE and the ROTORUA NATIVES, on the 16th

February, 1885.

Whititera te Waiatua, who was the first speaker, presented an address (attached), which, was a welcome from the chiefs and the people of Ngatiwhakauc.

[TRANSLATION.]

This is a welcome to the Native Minister from the Ngatiwhakaue Tribe. Friend, Mr. Ballance, salutations. Welcome to Rotorua; welcome to the land which has been left to es by our ancestors. Our joy is very great at your coining here to see us, so that you may he able to listen to our grievances and troubles, and to afford us relief. Although you have been absent in body, we have heard of the good measures that you brought before Parliament. It is on this account that our joy is very great, for we have heard of the policy expressed by your Government at meetings at Waikato and Wanganui. We believe and hope that we shall now obtain prosperity in consequence of the policy of your Government. In past times many troubles have rested upon us. Welcome to Rotorua. Come and remove the grievances which are resting on us. Welcome to the Anima Tribe, who have always been loyal and upheld the Queen's laws from the time of lighting down to the present. We hope that Providence will watch over you and enable you to carry out your good work affecting the Native people. Long live the Queen L Now, as you have come to see us we will therefore tell you the subjects which wo wish to bring before you. The bulk of the subjects we wish to discuss we will postpone for another occasion. These are the subjects we will now mention: (1) For many years past the Government have been devising laws affecting the Native lands; but those laws still press heavily upon the Natives : therefore it is our desire that some now policy should be enunciated with regard to these matters, therefore we propose that a law should be made jointly-affecting the Native lands. (2.) Let the Native Committee of Rotorua have the direction of the

6—G. 1.

NATIVE MEETING AT PAEAWAI. ' . Ngakapa Wbanaunga repeated the ' welcome, and said ho hoped all things

411,   

would be satisfactorily settled by Ilk .

Tux Honorable E. 0. J, Stevens with his   ; Stevens. Me again welcomed him and said .

wife arrived yesterday by the Itototnahana   I he was also pleased to see the Queen bad '

from Auckland, end proceeded to the Royal   ,' come with him, (alluding to Mrs Slovens) '   .

Hotel. After consultation with Mr Under-   '   'Lanni Naha followed, and referred to his

Secretary Lewis on the Piako question. Mr   ' ; previous acquaintance with Mr Stevens

and Mrs Stevens, and Messrs Lewis,   when he was a member of the House of   .

Wilkinson, and Mackay, proceeded to   , Representatives, which he was glad to .

Taipsn's Runanga House Hotunui. On   renew at Hauraki. Ho wished to have

alighting from their conveyance the party   some maps of boundaries duly certified to

were welcomed with the usual Haeremai 1   by he Survey Department.

litieremai 1 The visitors were then con-    --i

Mr Lewis promised to attend to this.   k

ducted to chairs which hind been placed in   ik The Honorable Mr Stevens spoke sal

readiness for them at the front of the carved   follows, (Mr Wilkinson being the inter-house. The natives eat about in groups

pretoo :-1 (hank Taipari and the at a little distance from them.

assembled natives for the kindly welcome

   Mr Lewis then addressed the Natives   t;Itneoygeohsa.ve Tueheisordisodthtee fimrsytsetlifmeant hittx 1 (Mr George Wilkinson offieiating as In.

terperter).   I wiab to explain to the   visited this place.   I regret that my .1

assembled Natives that the Honorable the   .

colleague,   hohelson, is unable to i

Native Minister regrets vary much being   Mr hi

here he to carry out the come to enable

una   meet you oo the present occasion, be has,

however, requested me to attend in his

arrangements commenced by him, but his

place. 'You state that .you wish some

absence is unavoidable owing to very im-

matters which are troubling you to be •1

portant Government business. Mr Mitchel-

amicably settled. I shall be prepared to ,

son has requested Mr Stevens who is also

meet you   spurt

y in the same friendspurtwhioh i

a Minister to come hereio his piece. I now introduce you to Mr and Mrs Stevens.

Yost   and

Mrs S have tevetie manifested I nested mpleased towards myself visiting !

I may say that they have not been at this   • ,,   ort •ant district,   at ..strict,   thank

and again than

Ins important

place beforeI and I hope you will show

you for the ,cord

your appreciation of their visit by giving

received from yen   have

. sal reception we

them a hearty welcome.   .

Mr Lewis then stated that if oonvenient.i

The Chief, Wirope Hoterene Taipari, to Welcome l

e

W

: id sa

and an

arose

then

to the natives, he would ask some of the

Ngatipaoa chiefs to accompaoi Mr Stevens

Hauraki. We are pleased at your coming

no TaiparPe private residence to dimes

among us, you are strangers to us, as we

matters relating to the Piako block, corn-

agrn to you and your wife, but we welcome

encing at the point where Mr Mitohelson 1

ydo, although you come from the other   m

left off when they requeeted an adjoern client .

island (South Island) and weare in the

in order to permit them to proceed to ■

North, we are all one people. Oome   ,

among us and ascertain our wants and our   . Piako to consult the memhers of their

troubles. We have been visited by many   tribe who were absent from the meeting.

The natives then dispersed.

Ministers, who have come and gone, they

The Ministerial party inspected the in-

have completed some things and loft others

teller of the carved where, after which

undone. We wish you to stop hero more

they proceeded to Taipari's house, and

than one day so that something may be

awaited the arrival of the Ngatipaoa chiefs.

for co

acoomplielled autoug . We us welcome Mrs Stevens coming

a messenger arrived stating that they ,

wished to dismiss matters among them-

Holiepa Kapene followed in a similar

strain.   selves, and would prefer meeting Mr

Stevens next morning (to-day).

The Revd. W. Turipona welcomed Lime

The ,otief Taipari then most hospitably

party, and said that the Minister had come 1'   ' entertained Mr and Mrs Stevens and Messrs

to see them on temporal concerns, but he

Lewis, Wilkinson, and Mackay.

trusted that everything would be done

After this several natives arrived on 1

with love and good will.

   Wauta Tipa repeated the woloome, and   various matters of business.

, said he hoped that matters rotating to   The Piako question will be proceeded I

-

1 Piako would be satisfactorily arranged by   with to day at the Comt House, Graham- 1

Minieter.

the

Mown, when it is believed the whole

i   Paom Plunge mode a speech of   question will be amicably adjusted before 1

welcome.,

taking it into Court for confirmation.

1

,   \_   .

TAWHIAO'S SECRETARY TO BE
ARRESTED.

---

AN ARMED FORCE DESPATCHED. Tam morning, at two o'clock, an armed force, consisting of Inspector Broham, Sergeants Gamble and Bernard, 20 oonstables, Detectives Chrystal and Ede, and Captain Morrison and 35 men of the Permanent Force, accompanied by Mr. Lewis, Under-Secretary for Native Affairs, left by ' special train for Mercer, en route for Pakaus.,,Tawhiao's settlement, on the proper left bank of the Waikato River, ' the object of the expedition being to arrest Berl Kahan, Tawhiao's secretary, who some months ago destroyed a trig station in 4110 Upper-'rhames district, and this interfered with the surveys which were being carried on by Mr. Cheat, a Government surveyor. The block on- which the trig . station was destroyed is native land, and outside the 45,000 acres handed over to the Government for advances ; but it was necessary that the surveys should be' made in order to have the boundaries correctly defined, and Mr. Cheal was appointed to superintend the undertaking. Some of the King party were opposed to

3 the surveys going on, while other natives - were in favour of them. Ultimately, as it was thought the matter was amicably settled, it having been explained that the trig stations were no infringements of their rights, Heri Kellum and some of Tawhiao e adherenta were not, as subsequent events showed, satisfied, and lien Kaibau destroyed or rather took down the trig station, the iron work he cant to the Postmaster at the !Almada, and he wrote to Mr. Wilkinson, the Govern- ment Native Agent, stating that he bad done the act. As he is Tawbuto'e secretary, the gauntlet was thus thrown down.   !

The Native Minister (Hon. E. Mitchel- ; son), to give the misguided native a chance, issued instructions to proceed by summons for the offence, so that geri Kaiba‘l. might appear in Court, and explain Idim:induct. Re did not answer the summons, '' sent a letter to the Government stating - there were two laws—that of the ,b'' ''''. meat and the other Tawhiao's law.: .;t. w ■sould obey the latter, and would not '1), .d the summons. Hamar° Kailian, assessor;e, ;other of Keri Kslhau, being aware of the gravity of the offenoe thus committed, saw the 1 Native Minister, and suggested a parley' between the Minister and Tawhiao, but the former declined, and stated that there could be but one law in the colony, that of the Queen, and it would have to be obeyed.

A warrant was in due course issued for the arrest of Keri Kaihnu, and Constables Hutchinson and McGovern and a native constable went to Pukaua, Tawhiao's settlement, early last week, to execute it, but they found 150 natives assembled, and owing to their attitude they retired, after ' reading the warrant, not deeming it prudent to attempt to make the arrest.   I

The matter' now assumed a more serious form, and Major Te Wbeoro and lienere Kaihau proceeded to Pakaua to induce I Kari Kaibau to surrender to the officers of jcstice, and, it is understood, Tawhiao was also in favour of that course ; but Keri

4 Kaihau resolutely declined. Major To ; Wbeoro and ?tenure Kaihau were in town yesterdny to see the NativeMinister, and they informed hen of the failure of their efforts, and again urged a parley with Tawhiao. Mr. Mitcheleon declined, as the matter was one for the ordinary operation of law, rathei than of negotiations.

The Native Minister placed the matter in the hands of Inspector Broham, who wan authorised to execute the warrant, and to make each arrangements as be deemed ■ necessary for a force to enforce it. The i result was the expedition above referred to, / which left this morning.

Arrangements have been made to cross I ' the Waikato at Mercer at daybreak and march by the native track to Pukaaa, ' Tawhiao's settlement, which should be reached in the early morning. The distance is given variously, as seven to ten miles from Merrier. Pakaua settlement is situated on the boundary bf the Onewbero block, and is stated to be - aa a hillside

Suanits0A hli format onovikru • ' " '   .

1883.
NEW ZEALAND.

REPORTS FROM OFFICERS IN NATIVE DISTRICTS. [In Continuation of G.-1, 1882.]

•                           Presented to both Houses of the General Assembly by Command of His Excellency.

No. 1.

The UNDER-SECRETARY, Native Department, to OFFICERS in NATIVE DISTRICTS. (Circular No. 8.)

Native Office, Wellington, 11th May, 1883.

SIR,-

I have the honour, by direction of Mr. Bryce, to request that you will be good enough to forward at your earliest convenience, but not later than the 14th proximo, the usual annual report upon the state of the Natives in your district, for presentation to Parliament.

I have, &c.,

T. W. LEWIS,

Under-Secretary.

No. 2.

G. T. WILKINSON, Esq., Alexandra, to the UNDER-SECRETARY, Native Department.

SIR,—   Native Office, Alexandra, 11th June, 1883.

In accordance with the request contained in your Circular No. 8, of the 11th ultimo, I have the honour to forward herewith my annual report upon the state of the Natives in the Waikato and Thames Districts. Waikato and the King Country.

•                        In the month of July last I received instructions to take over the Districts of Auckland and Waikato, including the district known as the King Country, as part of my duties as Native Agent, in the place of Major Mair, who had been appointed to a Judgeship in the Native Land Court Department. I accordingly took over the Auckland office work in the early part of September last, and shortly after visited Alexandra, and commenced my work amongst the Waikato or King Natives. The first Native matter of importance that took place in the Waikato District during the past year was the capture of Winiata, who was charged with the murder of Edwin Packer, at Epsom, near Auckland, in 1876. I need not refer hero to the mode of his capture, nor to the means used by the half-caste Barlow in order to bring it about, as that is now a matter of history. Suffice it to say that the effect upon the Natives, both criminals and others, was most salutary. Every one who had broken the law in years gone by, and was therefore "wanted," was more or less startled by the news of Winiata's capture, trial, and subsequent death by hanging. To Kooti, Purukutu, and others were all "by the ears." The first-named at once established a regular guard over himself, and warned all Europeans and half-castes not to come near To Kuiti, where he was living. He evidently saw then that Tawhiao, as King, was powerless to protect him against the law, so he determined to take measures to protect himself. To the bulk of the King Natives, who had nothing to fear on account of any evil deeds of their own, the arrest of criminals out of their very midst must have caused consternation ; albeit the means employed by Barlow to bring about the capture, and thereby secure the money-reward, took a great deal from the effect that otherwise it would have had amongst the King Natives. Following shortly after this came the Hon. Native Minister's meeting with Tawhiao at Whatiwhatihoe. What took place at that meeting has already been fully recorded both by the Press and by official documents, so that it is not necessary for me to refer to it here more than to say that, judging from subsequent events, more real result was brought about through that meeting than at any previous one that had taken place between a representative of the Government and the Maori King. True, Tawhiao did not accept the terms offered to him, and for which he was to abdicate in favour of law, order, and progress of civilization ; in fact, those who are in a position to know the circumstances under which the first Maori King was set up, and the reasons that have caused these people, his followers, to bind themselves together and act in concert during the last twenty-five years, did not consider it at all likely that he would accept the terms offered to him ;—and in saying "would"

7 G.-1.

Government amongst the Thames Natives previous to my holding that position, will speak with praise of the assistance that Charlotte has often rendered them, and will be grieved to hear of her death. Her sickness was not of long duration, and was brought about by her having run a nail into her foot, which caused great pain and swelling to the whole of the leg, and which eventually resulted in her, death.

The diseases from which the Hauraki Natives have suffered during the past year have been principally epidemic, viz., measles in July and scarlet fever in December. Fortunately, neither of these diseases committed as much havoc amongst them as it was feared they would do, thanks to the efficient medical assistance that was called in as soon as the diseases were discovered. Had scarlet fever obtained a firm hold amongst them it is difficult to say what would have been the result, as, what with the want of drainage always found round Native settlements, and the collective and confined way in which they live, such an infectious disease could not have been stamped out before it had carried off a large number of them as its victims.

I am pleased to be able to report a change of feeling on the part of some of the Natives regarding the subject of education. The Natives of a settlement called Kirikiri, near Shortland, seeing the necessity of educating their young people, have, during the past year, applied to the Government for a Native school, and the same has been erected and is now daily attended by the Native and European children in the district. The site for the school and teacher's residence-about four and a half acres—was given by the Natives under "The Native School Sites Act, 1880," and the regular attendance of the Native children at school shows that the parents now appreciate the advantage of having the means of educating their children in their midst. W. H. Taipari, Hoani Nahe, and Hori Matene are the Natives who gave the land for a school-site, and who have taken an active part from the commencement in getting a school established in that locality. Mr. R. O. Stewart, formerly of Tolago Bay, has been appointed to take charge, and from what I can learn he is well liked by the Natives, and the school is likely to be a success.

A sitting of the Native Land Court was held at Paeroa, the months of April and June last, at which the Crown's title to the Ohinemuri Gold Field Block-that is so much of it as had been purchased from the Native owners—was settled. After a protracted sitting an area of about 65,000 acres out of 73,000 acres was awarded to the Crown, the remainder—representing the interests of owners who up to that time had refused to sell—was allocated according to arrangement made in Court, by the Government representative and the Native owners. within the different blocks of which those unsold interests originally formed part. The reserves for the Natives were also fixed by the Court and amounted to 10 per cent. out of the area of land that each Native had sold to the Crown at the time he or she disposed of their interest. The Court ordered the title to those reserves to be inalienable. As it is thought desirable that the Government should own the whole of this gold field, excepting of course the reserves, the purchase of the before-mentioned unsold shares has been pushed on since the Court sat, and a considerable area of the same has since become Crown property.

At a sitting of the Native Land Court at the Thames, in January, 1882, the long outstanding Piako Block was called on, but very little was done towards putting it on a satisfactory footing. The large sum of £21,000 has been expended on this block during the last ten years (principally during the years 1873 to 1878), nearly all of which was advanced to members of the Ngatipaoa, tribe, numbers of whom are now dead ; but unfortunately these people only own about one-half of the block, the other half being owned by the Ngatimaru, Ngatihako, and Ngatitamatera tribes—the former being considerably the largest owner—and they have had little or no advances. The Ngatipaoa, who had received nearly all the money (or rather goods), and spent it, had therefore no interest in surveying their portion and putting it through the Court, or in endeavouring in any way to bring about a settlement, as it was quite apparent to them that they had nothing more to got in the way of payment, and consequently they were in no hurry to commence a survey of the portion claimed by them, which, seeing the large sums of money that had been advanced to them, they out of good faith should have done. They would neither make a survey themselves, nor give evidence in Court as to their boundaries in order that a survey might be made by the Government ; and, as a last resource, the Ngatimaru people (whose boundary abuts upon that of Ngatipaoa) had to be prevailed upon to go into Court and have the line fixed by their evidence alone. The Ngatipaoa, under Wini Kerei, their leader, showed their objection to this proceeding by leaving the Court in a body as soon as the first witness for Ngatimaru stood up to give evidence, thereby leaving it to be understood that they claim the right hereafter to reopen the question of the tribal boundary between themselves and Ngatimaru. The boundary was, however, given by Ngatimaru in Court, but, as it could only be fixed approximately on the map, there yet remained the task of laying it off on the ground, and this it has up to the present been found difficult to do. The locality in which the most difficulty is experienced is on the east bank of the Piako River, and working eastwards through to the Turua Bush. In this locality others than Ngatimaru own the land, and it is to them we have to look to get the correct boundary fixed. The erstwhile troublesome Ngatihako have claims here, and they have to be consulted, and they have refused to point out the boundary unless a meeting of all concerned first takes place, and a general assent to the survey is given by all the owners of the land. There appears to be a great deal of objection amongst the Natives all round to this survey, principally because nearly all the payment was given to the Ngatiparoa, tribe, and other tribes profess to be now fearful that, should the land owned by Ngatipaoa not be found sufficient to pay for what has been had, some of their portions will be taken to make up the deficiency. In fact, Ngatimaru say they would not have gone into Court and given the boundary had they not been first promised by the Under-Secretary of the Land Purchase Department that they should be allowed to return in cash the small advances (about £100) had by them, and that the prohibition proclamation against private purchase, at present over the whole of the Piako Block, should be removed from their portion.

G.-1.   8

The Ngatihako tribe, which during the last four or five years has been the only one of the Hauraki tribes that has caused much trouble and anxiety, have during the last year been exceptionally quiet, which is, I think, to be accounted for on the following grounds: First, that really they are not naturally a bad people, and it is principally through their having been unsuccessful in proving titles to land which they had looked upon as their own, and their seeing this land sold over their heads, and also their having been more or less what is commonly called "sat upon" by other tribes, that caused them to take up the position and act in the way they did—that is, set the law at defiance by shooting and wounding a surveyor. Secondly, the events that have been taking place round about them during the last eighteen months—for instance, the taking the snags out of the Waihou River, which was done literally "under their very noses," for they were living on the banks of the river, and could see the operations going on every day, and also the great change—I might almost say collapse—that has taken place lately in connection with King Tawhiao and his power. As it was the King and his policy of opposition and isolation that they adopted and carried out, I think I am right in saying that anything happening to strengthen or weaken the King party would proportionately affect them. Thirdly, hut what has most of all caused them to pause and consider was the arrest and trial of their two leading men, Pakara to Paoro and Epiha Taha, who were accused of shooting at and wounding young McWilliams whilst engaged in the survey of the Pukehange Block at Ohinemuri in August, 1879. For a long time after the crime was committed no attempt was made to arrest the culprits, and in all probability they began to think they were safe, but unfortunately for them their case was only another proof—and the Natives have now had several—that the law is patient and has a long and powerful arm. Their arrest by a party of constables when coming down the Waipa River in a canoe, within only a few miles of Tawhiao's settlement, must have considerably opened their eyes as to the limit and power of the law, and must have also considerably lessened their estimate of the power of Tawhiao and of the gods, under whose protection they used to boast they were, to protect them. This exhibition of power and firmness evidently "staggered" them, and a subsequent act of mercy on the part of the Hon. the Native Minister ''brought them down," viz., the releasing from gaol of Epiha Taha, under the Amnesty Act, after he had been in prison only six months out of a term of three years allotted to him by the Supreme Court. I am of opinion that these people will not cause any further trouble by breaking the law out of objection and opposition to it, and that, by a little good management and recognition of their position as a tribe in cases where surveys and other matters emanating, front the progress of civilization are concerned, there should be no difficulty in getting them to live as a peaceable and law-abiding people.

There has been very little crime all through the Hauraki District during the past year, the Natives mostly confining their breaking of the law to drunkenness, petty larceny, and the minor crimes. There have been at the Thames during the last twelve months four convictions for drunkenness, three for threatening and obscene language, two for larceny, and one for assault. At Te Aroha there have been six for drunkenness and one for provoking and insulting language. At Paeroa there has been one case of disorderly conduct and breach of the Vagrant Act.

There have been no public works upon which the Natives have been employed during the past year.   I have, &c.,

GEORGE T. WILKINSON,

Government Native Agent, Thames, Auckland, and Waikato. The Under-Secretary, Native Department, Wellington.

By Authority : GEORGE DIDSBURY, Government Printer, Wellington.-1883.

we are indebted, nor do

at care and toil they

together. But when it is remembered that the scope of our work is wider in extent ; that the questions submitted embrace all the North Island, and the interests of both races who now inhabit it or who shall hereafter do so ; that we have to recommend a remedy for past wrongs, and principles for the conduct of Courts of justice and the future management of land which is in extent a kingdom ; we feel we are entitled to ask your Excellency's favourable consideration in the estimation of our work. The task committed to us was one of no ordinary magnitude. It might well have taxed the extreme skill and wisdom of men superior to your Excellency's servants. We have attempted to fulfil our duty. Our report speaks for itself. It is offered in the hope that it may aid in producing lasting peace and prosperity in the North Island, to which it more immediately refers. Its merit must be judged by results. Time and experience will decide its value. If it accomplish but a portion of the good we wish both races of our countrymen in New Zealand, it will amply justify the confidence which it pleased your Excellency to repose in us.

We cannot conclude without expressing our gratitude for the assistance rendered to the work of the Commission by all classes of the community. Especially are our thanks due to Mr. J. M. Geddis, shorthand writer and secretary to the Commission, and Mr. M. J. Gannon, interpreter, for the great skill and unwearied energy displayed by them in the performance of continuous and heavy work.

Given under our hands, and sealed with our seals, at Wellington, this twenty-third day of May, 1891.

W. L. REES, (L.S.)

Chairman.

JAMES CARROLL. (L.S.)

DISSENT.

As I dissent from many portions of this report while I assent to others, and as the separation of the one from the other would be difficult, I have deemed it advisable to draw up an independent report, which is subjoined.   THOMAS MACKAY.

NOTE BY MR. CARROLL.

Upon the question of the Crown resuming the right of pre-emption over lands owned by the Maoris, I dissent from the views expressed in the foregoing report. I cannot help feeling that such a step would be unwise and impolitic, while the legality itself of such a proceeding is, I believe, open to grave doubt. The Crown bases its title to land in New Zealand not on the right of discovery or conquest, but on the Treaty of Waitangi. By that treaty the exclusive right of pre-emption over such lands as the Native proprietors might be disposed to alienate was yielded to Her Majesty from the period of signing the Treaty of Waitangi until the sanction of Her Majesty was obtained to "The Native Land Act, 1862:" over twenty years that right remained in full force. Thus it will be seen that ample opportunity afforded for testing the efficacy, wisdom, and justice of the prerogative so assured. In some

G....-.1..   XiViii    6 (   :I,
.:...,

   *   • $

G.-1.

vague way the Europeans have always regarded themselves as having an undefined reverse interest in Maori lands ; the Natives, on the other hand, have always failed to cordially acquiesce in the administration of their territorial estates by the various Governments have from time to time controlled the destinies of New Zealand. And so, for the long stretch of time the Government retained the right of pre-emption over the Native lands, the period was one fraught with many acts of injustice to the Natives. They called to mind the words used to them by Captain Hobson when the Treaty of Waitangi was signed—that the two races had become united under one sovereign; but, in strange contradiction to this harmonious union, they saw millions of acres of their land passing from them, in some instances at a farthing an acre, secured nominally by the Government, but in reality for the more favoured subjects of Her Gracious Majesty. So unjust, indeed, were many of the Government purchases that they were condemned in Parliament by men holding exalted positions, and who were in every way capable of forming an unbiassed judgment.

Parliament at length was no longer able to conceal from itself that great wrongs upon the Native race were being perpetrated. It saw, as it expressed itself in the preamble to the Native Land Act passed at the time, that it would greatly promote the peaceful settlement of the colony and the advancement of the civilisation of the Natives if their rights to land were ascertained, and defined, and declared, and if the ownership of such lands when so defined and declared was assimilated as nearly as possible to the ownership according to British law.

With a view to giving effect to the foregoing objects Her Majesty waived in favour of the Natives so much of the Treaty of Waitangi as reserved to Her the right of pre-emption over their lands.

I entirely fail to understand how, as set forth in the preamble to the Act of 1862, the Government of New Zealand, having renounced the right of pre-emption over Native lands, can again acquire that prerogative without the assent of the Natives. Upon equitable grounds alone the Parliament should not attempt to regain the prerogative it abandoned about thirty years ago. Such a proceeding on the part of the Legislature would in my opinion intensify the mistrust the Native population too long have had in Colonial Governments. They would immediately discern an intention on the part of the Government to enrich the European colonists at the sacrifice of the territorial interests of the Maori subjects of the Queen.
To the Native mind, unversed in the subtleties of the law, such a proceeding would be regarded by the present generation of Maoris as simply confiscation. They would feel themselves thrown back in the onward march of progress, hampered and shut out from the many advantages of civilisation that they now look so hopefully forward to, and regard as being within their reach. I think the resumption by the Crown of the pre-emptive right restricting the Natives to but one market in which they could dispose of their lands would retard instead of promoting the settlement of the country. Many of the more intelligent and prudent of the race are turning their attention to sheep-farming and stock-raising generally. They are possessed of the wholesome idea of becoming producers, and. laudably desire to emulate their more experienced European neighbours in the art of agriculture and profitable stock-rearing.

To attain this end they fully recognise that it would be wise for them to dispose of such areas of their surplus lands as they are not likely to require for themselves, and from the disposal of such lands to obtain the necessary funds for clearing, fencing, and stocking the land retained for their own profitable occupation. With the Native mind running in this groove, dominated with the desire of becoming thoroughly useful settlers, and adding to the productive powers of the colony, it may be reasonably expected that, with legislation of a judicious character afforded them such as will fairly meet their aspirations, little apprehension need exist as to their willingness to place the lands not needed for their own use in the public market. Evidence adduced before the Commission proved conclusively that, where the
Government interposed with its pre-emptive right, as was the case in the King-country, the Natives could not obtain a fair price for their land. The Government offered 3s. an acre : at the same time private purchasers were in constant communication with the owners, and willing to pay them £1 an acre.

Need one wonder that a deadlock in Native-land transactions in that part of the country
occurred. The inevitable result arising from such a condition of things is that, if the Natives cannot sell to the purchaser prepared to give them a larger sum than the Government, they will not sell at all; and it will be observed that not even the Treaty of Waitangi itself, or any law passed by Parliament, assumed the power of compelling the Natives to alienate their land.

xxix G.

So it comes to pass that large areas of excellent country, well adapted for settlement, re locked up, because, forsooth, the Natives refuse to accept the 3s. an acre offered by Government, when private parties are prepared to give them more than six times that While still on the question of the pre-emptive right, perhaps I may be permitted to words of Mr. Alfred Domett : "In governing masses of men we must look upon really felt as a real wrong. It mattered not that on abstract principles of justice or it ought not to be considered a wrong—if it was really felt by them, then it must be as a real wrong. And this was the case with the Maoris, and their feeling about the right of pre-emption." It is nearly thirty years since those words were uttered in the New Zealand Parliament, and they are as pregnant with truth now as they were then.

Not only in regard to the exercise of the pre-emptive right should Government with the Natives be avoided, but in many other respects. A race that has in contact with the most civilised nation on earth during the past half-century, a race intelligent, and possessed of great territorial estates, may in reason he expected to sufficient discernment to distinguish between governmental treatment properly and imprope bestowed.

For the special purpose of meeting the requirements of the aboriginals, the Native I understand, was constituted. This was to be the avenue open to the Maoris communicating their desires to the pakeha world.

When the Imperial Government relinquished its control of Native affairs, it was a condition precedent, I understand, that a sum of £7,000 was to be devoted annually to purpose of a character deemed specially beneficial to the Natives.

This sum is and has been for years annually expended. It is understood that it is exhausted in maintaining the Native Office; but for what specific purposes remains shrouded in mystery. Efforts have been made, even by Parliament itself, to have some light thrown on the matter; but without success. Of this, however, no doubt need exist: that the Native population, who presumably may be regarded as primarily interested in the disbursement of that annual sum, are thoroughly dissatisfied. So far from the Native Office being to them an institution to look up to, or view in a favourable light, they regard with the utmost and undisguised dread its questionable operations. Scarcely is there a portion of the Island where the Natives have any experience of the Native Office but they remember it with feelings of regret. Everywhere one hears complaints of its deceitful practices, overreaching, unfulfilled promises, and treachery, in all of which the Natives are, of course, the helpless victims.

As to these grievances, some of them are of a serious character. It will not redound to the honour of a possession of the British Crown if those grievances are not impartially investigated. With experience so gained, can it be wondered at that proposals emanating from a source so tainted—the channel of communication between the Government for the time being and the Natives—are regarded as new devices for still further victimising them? Deceived and misled, can it be a matter of surprise that Governments, as they have known them, together with the Native Office, are jointly viewed with the profoundest suspicion? The situation has been so forced upon the Natives throughout the Island. Partly in despair and partly in hope they have now sought a way out of the difficulty. The mysteries of the Native Office they cannot penetrate ; the policy of past Governments they have learned to mistrust : their only hope and outlook is centred in the prospect of the Legislature granting them the power they ask for to control their own affairs. After all, what they ask for is only a species of local self-government, exercised in a manifold degree by their European neighbours.

A strong desire exists among them to become useful settlers, and contribute to the productive wealth of the country. I believe they are capable of doing so if-unimpeded by obstructive legislation. Too long has it been the fashion to regard the Native race as one rapidly becoming extinct. This idea has permitted the sentimental nonsense to be indulged in that the duty of the Legislature was, as some one has expressed it, "to smooth down their dying-pillow." For my own part, and after careful observation, I am forced the conclusion that it is a mistaken theory to assume that the Native race will decrease. The abnormal state of affairs that prevailed during and some time after the wars with the Natives to some extent, perhaps, warranted such a conclusion ; but that turbulent period in their history has happily passed away, never to return. Where they have adopted European habits and followed industrial pursuits a steady increase is perceptible. This, I think, will be borne out by the recent census returns.

v—G. 1.

G.-1.   XXX

Even the casual traveller through the portions of the country more particularly inhabited by Natives can scarcely fail to observe the many Maori children growing up, healthy-looking, well fed, and well clad. This condition of things follows a peaceful and industrious mode of living. But is it not a somewhat melancholy reflection that, during all the years the New Zealand Parliament has been legislating upon Native-land matters, no single bona fide attempt has been made to induce the Natives to become thoroughly useful settlers in the true sense of the word? No attempt has been made to educate them in acquiring industrial knowledge or to direct their attention to industrial pursuits. Whatever progress they have achieved in that direction is owing entirely to their own innate wisdom and energy. In that respect they are essentially self-taught, and have had to rely entirely upon their own powers of observation. Parliament will add one more to its many blunders in administering Native affairs if, in its shortsightedness, it omits to devise means for encouraging and assisting the Natives to become useful settlers. This can be done if they are afforded facilities for rendering productive the lands they already possess. The Natives need no great incentive. Why not encourage them to take up land under special-settlement conditions? They are quick to learn, and at the present time surrounding circumstances are very favourable. In former times many opportunities presented themselves that were allowed to pass unheeded, unregarded. If similar Parliamentary neglect again asserts itself, the day may be nearer at hand than many expect when the Legislature will find itself face to face with the difficulty embodied in the question, "What shall we do with our Maoris?"

FUTURE LEGISLATION.

It should be borne in mind, when legislating for the future, that the antipathy that existed in the Native mind in many parts of the colony in the early days against the occupation of Maori lands by Europeans has wholly disappeared. The Commissioners, in their recent travelling through the North Island, had ample testimony afforded them of this fact. While difference of opinion prevails among the Natives as to the relative merits of leasing or selling, there is a consensus of opinion amongst them upon the advisability of throwing their open, at all events, for leasing. They have openly and publicly enunciated their views upon this point, the sole difficulty, apparently, being as to the legislative machinery to be employed to attain this end. The Natives, in unmistakeable terms and with singular unanuinity, have made known to the Commissioners the modus operandi to be adopted in the furtherance of their views. It cannot therefore be alleged that by Parliament conforming to the expressed views of the Natives any obstacle is raised to the settlement of the country.

It is not as if the Natives were taking up a sullen attitude against what might be regarded as the general welfare of the colony. No ; on the contrary, they earnestly entreat

Parliament to afford them substantial legislative aid to deal with their lands in a manner best understood by themselves, at the same time compatible with justice, and in no way inimical to the best interests of the colony. Imbued with such desires, they naturally look to Parliament to aid them. I feel assured that Parliament will be acting wisely in acceding to their request, and affording them the co-operation they so earnestly hope for. Certainly, without the thorough co-operation of the general body of the Natives, no scheme that any Government may propound, no legislation that it may pass, can be expected to succeed. An exceptional opportunity now presents itself for introducing judicious legislation for enabling the Natives to deal intelligently and justly with the large areas of land now held by them in an unproductive or only partially-productive state. They themselves are willing to assist in carrying out the laws they ask to be passed, and thus, while promoting their own racial interests, feel that they are being dealt with as intelligent beings, willing to bear their proper share of the obligations of the State.

By Parliament meeting the Natives now in the same spirit of frankness that the Natives have come before the Commissioners, much may be done to redeem the bitter recollection of the past, and a harmonious system be brought about whereby true settlement and genuinee progress of the North Island, as well as the colony as a whole, may be largely promoted, to the advantage and lasting prosperity alike of the European and Maori races.

JAMES CARROLL.

35

479. Yes, subject to taxation, and settled according to the land-laws of the colony, 81 from the complications which at present exist ?—I think it would do.

480. Do you not think it would simplify our dealings with Native land ?—I think so. substitute leasing for purchasing you will do away with a source of quarrel amongst the I themselves and stop speculation, because the people who apply for these lands will take then order to settle upon them.

AUCKLAND, 16TH MARCH, 1891.
HAMIORA MANGAKAHIA, examination continued.

481. Mr. Recs.] You were good enough to tell the Commissioners you would obtain documents, and arrange your thoughts for to-day on these subjects upon which we desired from you ?—I have received some of the documents I referred to ; others bearing upon the I have not obtained as yet. I would like to speak upon the points that have been written me (the subjects set out in the Commission), and then the evidence on other points may be e by the Commissioners   

putting questions to me. The first point in the memorandum that I speak upon is with reference to troubles and disputes between Europeans and Maoris in land purchases and leases, and also with regard to mortgages. I am aware of very great di ties existing throughout the Island in reference to these particular points—that is, with rege disputes as to leases, sales, and mortgages. I have heard that there was a Commission similar to this to inquire into these matters. When I heard that. the Commission was appc it occurred to me it would be a good plan for the Commission to be appointed to inquire in such matters—disputes and so on. My idea is that a Judge of the Supreme Court and two sors should sit and inquire into all disputes between Europeans and Maoris ; that in the seles of Assessors great care should be taken in getting the best men available ; that the person: would constitute that Court should have been in no way previously connected with any mi that were to come before them, and be neither directly nor indirectly concerned in any lease, veyance, or mortgage that might come before them for consideration ; that all the individuals be able to say that they were entirely untrammelled in any way, and the Europeans should. say that they were in no way personally interested. This, of course, relates to that part o subject concerning disputes between Europeans and Natives. All these difficulties could be braced and dealt with under the one heading—that is, " Appointment of a tribunal to settle disputes." That Court should have very large power for finally settling matters that would brought before it. That is all I have to say upon that branch of the subject. Now, with rega the Native Land Court, my idea is that all of the laws in connection with the Native Laud from 1865 up to 1890 should be repealed. The difficulties will rapidly increase, instead of 1 diminished, if these laws are not repealed, because there is a continual changing of these laws, a constant taking of clauses from one Act and then putting them in another, and then reing them ; and then, with all this, there are amendments going on, the effect being to matters that the greatest confusion prevails. Therefore it is that I think these laws should b pealed—not that what has been done hitherto should be affected by such a provision. With re to all lands that are in their primitive state, these should be dealt with under that new law ; nothing should be done to interfere with existing rights if it could be avoided. Then, from various Native Land Acts that have been passed from 1865 to 1890, select such portions a, deemed to be good, and embody them in the new law. But in cases where any of the provis of the old laws would be embodied in the new law, not to say that such-and-such a clause was t from such-and-such an Act—not to quote these old Acts at all, but that the new law should be tirely new, without any reference to old Acts—that is, with regard to the operation of the Laud Court. I am excluding at present any reference to the subdivision of Native lands. I t that the Court for subdividing Native land should be a distinct and a minor Court, as regards Native Land Court for dealing with Native claims. I see in numbers of the Government Gaz that are published applications from Natives to have their interests cut out, in order that they get a Crown grant or a certificate of title for their individual share, so as to deal with the indivi interest ; but thesittings of the Court arc not held. I have seen in my own travels as an Asse that great numbers of these applications for subdivisions have been made ; but the Courts ] been unable to attend to them owing to the number of rehearings and other matters they are on to attend to. Many who wished to have their interests individualised have been unable to g done owing to the Court being engaged at other work. For the Court for subdividing lands should be two Assessors, an European clerk, and an European interpreter, and the name of that should be "The Court fcr subdividing Native land in New Zealand." Then, in that Court a of the land to be subdivided should be produced, and access should be had to the books which tained the evidence of the former investigations. Persons eligible to act as Assessors of the Na Land Court should be appointed to this Court, and also the clerks and interpreters of the Na Land Court. The scale of pay to be provided to be the same as provided in the Native Land Co Having now spoken about the Subdivision Court, I wish to refer to something I omitted in regar the first matter of reference. I have a written memorandum of the various points, and after conc. ing my evidence I will hand this memorandum in. I am aware that there are some points in tl Acts of the past that are good if time could be taken to select the provisions that should be adopt but I think, with regard to the good points in these Native-land laws, I may have to leave that ject at present, because it may come up for discussion at an important meeting which is Heretaunga, in Hawke's Bay. Recently Wi Pere, Mr. Carroll, and myself have had a meeting v reference to these laws, and I have a written memorandum with me on the matter. What being collated from the various Acts will be read over at this meeting in Hawke's Bay, and what the meeting at Hawke's Bay approves of will be immediately submitted to the Commissior

G.-1.   36

before Parliament sits ; so that you will have the recommendation of the meeting. Therefore, as I have already said, I shall not touch upon any of the points that are deemed acceptable in the past Acts, as that is to be reserved for further consideration. If there should be any other points on which the Commissioners desire that I should give evidence, perhaps they will put questions to me.

482. Mr. Recs.) In cases where dealings hare been just and fair between Europeans and Maoris, but where by reason of the difficulties in the Native-land laws some trifling thing has been omitted, would you be in favour of a law being passed to remedy such technical defects where there are no disputes between Maoris and Europeans as to the fairness of the transaction ?—What I think is that in such cases all sorts of disputes should be brought before the Court I have already mentioned. In the beginning of my evidence I stated that that Court should have large powers for dealing with such matters regarding all leases and so forth, and that the Court should have power, where it saw that the transactions were proper, to cut off a portion of the land equivalent to the money that had been paid ; and whatever the Court determined was the proper way of adjusting such matters, they should have power to give effect to that adjustment.

483. In cases like the Whangara case at Gisborne, where the Natives and the Europeans publicly made an agreement : so much land sold—so much leased—and where it seemed to the Court fair, would you give it power and authority to issue titles 2—If arrangements are made and reduced to writing between the Europeans and Natives with regard to portions to be reserved, the portions to be leased, and the portions to be sold in a block of land, the Court I have referred to should have power to confirm such arrangements, because it would be, under such circumstances, quite possible to produce the document showing the assent or otherwise of the parties.

484. In cases where several of the parties lived at a great distance, if a large majority of the Natives came into Court and testified in the presence of the Court that such arrangements were made, and the Court saw that the interests of the absent parties were being cared for, would you hold that that would be sufficient for the interests of the Court ?—Yes. I think that where a large majority of the Natives would appear in Court, and where some were unable to attend owing to their great distance from the place of sitting, the Court should have power to act on the will of the majority, taking care, of course, to protect the interests of the absentees.

485. Can you tell us whether it was the custom in the olden time of the Maoris that every man, woman, and child had to give assent and sign documents for every transaction ?—In former times it was necessary in land dealings that everybody—persons of importance and persons of very little importance—should sign. This is the way it was : Supposing there was a hapu and I was the chief of the hapu, and that the younger members of the family were with me, I as chief of my hapu would first speak to the people of my hapu and the people of the tribe. I would express to them my opinion that this land should go to a certain person—should be transferred—and I as chief would give my reasons for saying why the laud should be so disposed of. Then, after that, I as chief would have the power of disposing of the land myself. My word would be final. Having in the first instance explained the proposal to the people, no one would then have the power to object. Then, in more recent times, when each person's name is written in the certificate of title or Crown grant, it became necessary for each individual to be a party to the transaction. In some tribes they

b

still adhere to the old custom I have mentioned. Then, others have abandoned altogether the old system and adopted the European method.

486. Do you think it would be wise to return in a certain sense to the old custom, and let the people all know everything which was being done, but let a few be chosen to act with the Government Commissioner in carrying out the will of the people in leasing, mortgaging, selling, or anything else—that everything should be public 2—Does that question relate to lands over which the Native title is still unextinguished or to lands that have already passed the Court ?

487. My question relates to both, but you can distinguish between the two if you think proper? —This is my reply with regard to lands that have not passed the Court : that in their case they should remain in their existing state, and that there should be no surveys and no Courts. I know where the difficulty will be in such a scheme as that. The Natives see that great evils befall them through the Native Land Court, and through the Survey Department, and through litigation generally. I can explain to the Commissioners where the difficulties are that the Natives complain of with regard to surveys, and with regard to the difficulties of the Native Land Court. I am aware of the price that the New Zealand Government is paying in purchasing from the Natives-2s. 6d. and 5s. an acre are the prices given. Besides, when the Natives get their lands surveyed, the survey of the block will in some cases amount to £500 or £600. That is only for the external boundary. Then come the internal subdivisional surveys, and these amount also to a very large sum, perhaps another £500 or £600. And then, before these subdivisional surveys are made, there are large sums to be paid by the Natives for Native Land Court fees, and for agency purposes, and for other expenses incurred ; and all these outlays are to be met from the 5s. an acre that is derived from the sale of the land. Then, if the Natives sell, the proceeds of the sale are to go to pay these expenses, and the whole of the land is absorbed in this way, nothing being left for the Natives. This is the effect of the system that at present prevails. But the Maori is in this position : He does not know what to do, the laws having been passed under which he is to act. That is the reason why I think the Native lands should remain in their native state until some better course is discovered, and a simpler way of dealing with them. There are many difficulties that arise under the existing system. One of them is this : Supposing that I have a Crown grant for a piece of land and I wish to lease it to a European. The European has paid a large amount of duty to the Government, and that then reduces the amount the Native will get for his land ; and that is the reason why the Natives get very little for their land. So much has to be paid for duty in the first instance that but little is left for improvements, and consequently people are afraid to attempt to acquire Native land at all.

488. With regard to lands that have passed the Court, but which are still in the hands the Maoris—large blocks with many owners—do you not think it would be-wise for a Committee to be chosen amongst the owners, who should choose their own reserves, and for the rest of the land to be leased by this Committee chosen by the owners, which would act in conjunction with some Government Commissioner for the benefit of the owners ?—That is a very good plan ; but where I think the difficulty would be is this : When the title of the land was being investigated, the Court should have ascertained the individual interest of each person. If that were dope, then the course would be perfectly clear, but, because in many instances that has not been clone—the determination of the respective interests—there is trouble afterwards.

489. You think that if the respective proportions of the owners were settled so that it could be known how much each individual claimed it would be a good plan for the Government Commisner to see they distributed the funds properly ?—Yes, I think that would be an excellent plan : so as the respective interests of the parties were ascertained, that the Committee, acting along with the Government officer, should see that the proceeds of the land were fairly distributed amongst the owners. That is what has created so touch trouble and creates trouble at the present time—that is to say, that the individual interests have not been ascertained by the Courts at the original hearings, because, of the Natives interested, some claim large interests and seine claim small interests in the same blocks.

490. Would it not be possible for the Natives to arrange amongst themselves in runanga what the respective interests are in the block?—They could not ascertain that if they were sitting in a non-formal manner, but, if there were some tribunal they were to go before, then they would be prepared and could then do it.

491. Would the Maori Committees of the district help them at all ?—I think that the Court I mentioned, composed of two Assessors and a clerk and an interpreter, would be suitable for ascertaining the individual interests, and with such a Court the Natives would arrange and discuss these matters prior to going before it, and to that extent would facilitate the business of the Court. And then the few who would be obstinate or difficult to deal with could come before the Court, and the Court would settle their interests. But a great deal might be done by the Natives themselves outside in runanga.

492. Do you think that the Maori reserves which would be cut out for the Maoris should be made absolutely inalienable both by sale or lease, so as to preserve them absolutely for the Maori families ?—Yes.

493. Then, supposing there were certain men among the Maoris like yourself, or Wi Pere, who have sufficient skill to manage for themselves, and they wished to have sheep-farms, do You think it would be wise for the Government, under certain restrictions, to advance money to enable them to cultivate for themselves outside of the Maori reserves ?—I believe that if some such idea as that were carried out it would be very good indeed, because now there are large areas of Native land that are practically useless to the Natives. The money should not be given to the Natives, but it should be disbursed in such a way as to be spent in the actual improvement of the land, a proper account being kept to show the outlay that has been made. I would also have it that these accounts could be seen by the Natives, so that they would know what amount of money was being spent in improving their land; and this would cause them to be industrious and energetic in working and the land productive, in order to repay their indebtedness to the Government. When they to repay the Government in a short period of time. of course the Government would give them a written document saving that their indelcedness was removed ; but if the debt remained on the land of the Maoris for a long time. interest. at a moderate rate, should be fixed by the Government.

494. Do you think it would be a good plan for the Government to retain a small percentage of the proceeds of the land after

paying for the surveys—say, 10, 15 or even 20 per cent.—in order to provide schools, or any things that the Native Committees in the district might deem advisable for the general purposes of the Natives ?—And this money would be kept out of what ?

495. Out of the rents arising from the land every year, and retained in order to provide for any thing that the Natives might want. Of course that is only a suggestion for you to consider ?— There are many things that the Natives have done in the way of giving lands for schools and for missionaries, and the Natives see that. through these lands lacing set apart for such purposes, a lot of dissatisfaction has arisen. For my own parr. if I were leasing good land. say for twenty-one years, I would be quite satisfied to allow the Government a certain commission for carrying out the transaction on my behalf, because a great deal of trouble and difficulty exists throughout the Island on account of leasing and other transactions carried on between the Natives and private parties.

49G. Mr. Mackay.] Would you be in favour of leasing land to the Government in place of selling it would be satisfied that the. Government should be the agent in obtaining the leases. I do not think that any trouble would arise if the Government would act in that position. Where the trouble arises between the Europeans and the Natives in the matter of leasing is that the Natives can get advances on account of the land from the Europeans, saying that they will repay them when the rent is due. In that way the Natives get involved in debt, and there is only a small amount of rent to meet their liabilities. That is the reason why I think, if the Government disbursed the money among the Natives, there would be none of this trouble. And the Government could retain a certain percentage of the rem to recoup itself for the cost of administering this land.

497. What would your opinion be of a plan by which the Government was to lease whatever land would be disposable for leasing from the Native owners, paying them a rent to he fixed between the Native owners or their trustees and the Government agent, and then the Government dealing with that land as it thought best, the Government also undertaking all the expense of subdivisonal surveys afterwards, and also of roadiug throughout the land wherever settlement could be ? —That is a very good question, and in some instances, where the land would be valuable, the

Government would be able to get enough from it to pay the expenses ; but in other cases,' where the land would be bad, the Government would not be able to get enough to pay the expenses it would incur in roadiug and dating up the land. That seems to me to be a difficulty, but it is a matter I would like to consider further, and then, in a day or two, I would know better how to answer the question. What I am afraid of is that in cases where the Government would not get enough to pay for the expense the Government would then charge these expenses, for making the roads and so on, and take the land for these expenses.

498. I mean this : Here is a block of land in its natural state that the Native owners wish offered for sale or lease; say, they prefer to lease, and that the Government proposes to lease it from them at a rent per acre to be settled between the trustees or the Native Committee and the Government agent, and that that would be a rent in perpetuity for the cession of the land to the Government, the Government then going to the expense of its subdivisional surveys and of laying.off the land in suitable farms, runs, or whatever else it was fit for, and incurring the expense of doing all this, no matter whether it paid the Government or not ?—If it would be carried out in that way clearly, so that the Government had no claim against them. they would let the land. It would be a very good arrangement, hut then perhaps the Government would not spend rent on inferior land.

499. Mr. Rees.] Of course it is to the interest of the Government to get the land settled. because it obtains taxes from the people, and the laud provides employment for the people ?-I think it would be a very good plan.

500. Mr. Mackay.] It would simplify dealings with the Native owners, and then, too, there would be no complication as to cost of subdivisional surveys and preparing the land for settlement. I know from experience that the Natives grumble immensely at these costs, which have to be deducted from their rents—in fact, spread over years?—It would be well to let the Natives know what the Commissioners report to Parliament, so that they might have the general scheme before them, and so that it would be seen that the project about leasing is as clear actually as you mention here. The Natives could then see exactly what it is, because this work of the Commissioners is a new work and a good work.

501. Mr. Rees.] I have spoken with Mr. Mackay, and I think I may say we have agreed that it would be advisable to put our report into Maori directly it is available, and to have it circulated amongst the Natives—to publish it, in fact, in the Kahiti 2—That would be very satisfactory—to have all these matters put clearly, and so that good would eventually result from the action taken by the Commissioners.

502. Do you consider that, under the laws existing now, it is at all likely that any good settlement can be come to between the Natives and Europeans with regard to the lands of the former?—I do not see that any good will come out of the laws as they are at present. We have all sorts of titles : Crown grants, certificates of title, and memorial of ownership, and there are so many complicated laws that the Natives do not know the effect of their Crown grant as compared with a memorial of ownership and a certificate of title. I have some trouble myself in hand, of which you know, over some litigation in which I am concerned with the New Zealand Timber Company. The difficulty was on some point raised upon the Crown grant or memorial of ownership and the power and effect of that particular title I did not understand. Then, when it came before the Supreme Court, I lost the case, the Judge saying that the memorial of ownership was not of great effect, and that if, instead of a memorial of ownership, I had had a Crown grant for the land. I would have won my case. Thereupon I saw that there was a difference between a memorial of ownership, a certificate of tide, and a Crown grant. The Maoris generally are in the same position of perplexity ; they do not know the relative values of these titles. That is the reason why I was saving of these difficulties that I do not think any good will come out of the Acts as they are at present, and why I said in the beginning all the Native-land laws should be swept away, and that definite titles should be issued—say, Crown grants—the Court to simply issue Crown grants and nothing but Crown grants in all cases. Where there would be an advantage in it, the Court could allocate different portions to the different owners, and give them a Crown grant as a title.

JAMES MACKAY sworn and examined.

504. Mr. Rees.] You are a licensed interpreter 7—And land agent.

505. What means of knowledge have von had, and what experience dating back in time, in relation to Native land cases in New Zealand 7—Thirty-three years. I commenced to deal with Native land for the Government in February, 1858.

506. Where 2—At Nelson, and also extensively in this Island for the Government, and for private individuals as well.

507. Can we assume that since 1858 you have been directly and indirectly connected with Native matters 2—Yes ; I was acting front 1853 till 1869, and engaged in all Native matters that the Government had in hand.

508. What purchases did you effect in Nelson and Westland?—I purchased the land from a place called Kahurangi Point, thirty miles south of Cape Farewell, down to Milford Sound, and extending inland to the watershed range.

509. About what area 7—Seven and a half millions of acres ; and, in addition, for about two and a hale millions of acres on the east coast of the Province of Marlborough, from near Awatere to the Huruuui River.

510. For the Government?—Yes Besides that I had to clear up all omissions in connection with Sir Donald I'IcLean's purchases. He made large purchases adjacent to Cook Strait, and there was a great deal of unfinished business I had to attend to. Besides that and goldfields work I filled the position of Assistant Under-Secretary, which position I held up to the time of the Waikato war,

The Ngati-Maniapoto say that, although they sold their lands to the Crown sacrifice prior to 1900, the purchase-money enabled many of them to build ern dwellinghouses. But the proceeds of the recent sales were absolutely mdered. In one case a young Maori received over £500 for his interest and. He promptly invested £300 in the purchase of three racehorses of )tful speed, and secured a complete racing outfit and the services of a trainer. or-cars are not yet fashionable in the King-country, otherwise these prodi- might have invested in that direction.

In these latter purchases the Crown was bound by the terms of sections 22 25 of " The Maori Land Settlement Act, 1905," .(1) to ascertain before pletion of purchase whether the vendors had other land sufficient for their intenance (an indication being given of what the Legislature deemed to be minimum of land sufficient for the maintenance of a Maori), and (2) to pay owners not less than the capital value of the land as assessed under " The

vernment Valuation of Land Act, 1896." This marks a distinct advance policy. But there is no machinery provided for ascertaining the reserves be made for the vendors. The minimum fixed by section 22—namely, 25 res of first-class land, or 50 acres of second-class, or 100 acres of third-class

—betrays the fact that in the mind of the Legislature the revenue from

an area -might suffice for the maintenance of a Maori now alive without

in any way for his descendants.

There is one section in the Act of 1905 which we imagine must have been aced on the statute-book either without due consideration of its effect or by ischance. This section is as follows (section 20, " Maori Land Settlement Act, ) :—

20. (1.) Notwithstanding the provisions of any law now in force to the contrary, the Governor acquire any lands owned by Maoris by purchase from the Maori owners, or from a majority value of such owners if more than ten, or from a Committee duly appointed under the provisions Part II. of Division II. of " The Native Land Court Act, 1894."

(2.) Upon such majority duly executing a deed of transfer to His Majesty the land may be with as Crown lands under " The Land Act, 1892 " ; and a list of all owners who have not so xecuted a deed of transfer, certified as correct by a Judge of the Native Land Court, and the receipt the Receiver-General for the amount of consideration due in respect of their shares or interests the land, shall complete the title of the Crown for registration and all other purposes.

Two districts—namely, the North of Auckland and Poverty Bay—are excluded from the provisions of this section until the 1st of January, 1908. The section enables the Government, if it can get a majority in value of owners in a block to sell to the Crown, to bind the minority and to complete its title to the whole block regardless of their wishes. This seems to us contrary to natural justice. Among other things, the minority is bound to accept the price " fixed " by the majority with the Crown; the wishes of individual owners, who are competent to utilise their interests properly and may for that reason have refrained from selling to the Crown, are overruled.